Two Tours in Iraq. Seven Years of Addiction. Here's What Finally Worked.

Speaker labels and mis-heard names are corrected by hand; the words are as spoken, filler and all.

Preview clips

Justin: I didn't believe in hazing guys. I would mess with guys, but I didn't believe in hazing just to haze.

PJ: Yeah, sure.

Justin: Right. There has to be a purpose behind if we're doing any type of extra military activities. There has to be a lesson behind on that deployment. Um, I guess I really proved myself. So, I ended up becoming I was the squad RTO.

— Yeah.

Justin: And my job was to communicate with hire with our command back at our little patrol base and then also air. I didn't know what I was dealing with. I didn't understand I was dealing with depression, anxiety, post-traumatic stress disorder. Like I didn't understand that the I was living with that stuff.

PJ: What did the Marines give you or being in the Marine Corps give you that nothing in your else in your life could have

Justin: taking those painkillers thinking this is what normal people feel like?

PJ: Yeah.

You know, statement, man.

Justin: I don't know if it was so much that I I had become so lost or I felt like I was the example of how not to live your life.

PJ: One one of the people I I admire very much on on like the social media is is Alex Hormozi

and one of the things he he talks about is wherever you point your finger is where the power goes,

right? And when we're in those situations where we're a victim, it's constantly out there. Right? So the power goes out there. So you have no power to change the situation. And until you can learn to do this,

now you have the power to change things.

Justin: I had to face myself for the first time. And I think that's really where I made the decision of like, I don't want to do this anymore. I don't know how I'm not going to do it anymore, but I'm going to figure it out. I can remember saying to the colonel, I said, I don't feel comfortable running this range. And he questioned me. He said, who are you? I'm Corporal Wright and I'm your range safety officer. I don't feel comfortable running this range. And um I remember I got chewed out pretty bad for that later on.

I was just jacked up. You know, I was depressed. I was anxious. You know, I was very angry. And in the in that moment, all that stuff went away.

This got real quiet. My mind got real quiet. And I just felt at ease.

Conversation

PJ: Hello friends, welcome to our next episode of the Prize podcast, Mastering the Military Transition Series. Today we have with us Justin Wright. Uh Justin Wright is a Marine Corps veteran. Um did two tours over in Iraq and is now an intervention specialist. Yeah.

Justin: Yes, sir.

PJ: Um we're going to talk through the transition itself, what your experience was in the military, and uh we're going to try and pull out some useful tips and tricks this time. Does that sound good?

Justin: Sounds great.

PJ: All right, buddy. Hey, you did how many years in the Marine Corps?

Justin: So, I did four four years active.

PJ: Four years in in the Marine Corps. So, okay. So, single term enlisted.

Justin: Yep.

PJ: Yeah. Uh infantry guy.

Justin: Yep. 0311.

PJ: Yeah. 0311, baby. There it is. What was your time like um while you were in the Marine Corps?

Justin: Yeah. So, uh do we want to start from boot camp?

PJ: Well, or from the fleet.

You know what? Yes. Because I remember you telling me you had some experiences over at boot camp. So, let's start let's start there.

Justin: So, uh, I enlisted in April 3rd of 2006, was in boot camp about 10 days later, and it was during the summer, and I can remember, uh, kind of flew under the radar. It was, you know, wasn't standing out for the good or the bad, but, um, I'll say things changed when, uh, me and this other guy, we were the house mouses,

so we were the smaller guys.

Yeah. Yeah. So, we had to square everything away in the lockers and things like that. And um I can remember we stayed behind one day to square everything away and I thought it would be a good idea to do an impersonation of a drill instructor and he sounded like Arnold Schwarzenegger.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: So, I'm in there doing this impersonation and not knowing there was a a great in the floor that goes right outside where all the drill instructors would go smoke and and talk and things like that. And there was a drill instructor out there and he heard me

and he came in. I remember he he banged our heads together and uh he said, "Stand by." So, um I remember everyone comes back. We're sitting on our on our foot lockers and I'm looking at the guy and I'm like, "We got to we got to tell on ourselves. We have to." So, I remember going up to the hatch banger three times, you know, recruit, right? Request permission to speak your senior drill instructor, sir. And they're like, "Go away. So, uh, what ended up happening was is the next day our our senior drill instructor, probably one of the tallest guys I've ever seen in my life.

PJ: Wow.

Justin: Comes up to me and he says, "You got anything to tell me?"

And I said, "No." And, uh, he said, "Rogger that." So,

PJ: yeah. Integrity violation.

Justin: Integrity violation. So, from that point on, my experience changed.

Uh, the drill instructors really liked me then. I remember running I remember running the Crucible with my uh M16 A2 completely torn apart running obstacle courses holding the bolt carrier in in the upper receiver and the lower receiver juggling it with the charging handle. Um and uh finally I think you know they kind of backed off and this is real funny. I remember graduation day um family's there and everything like that. So, I go up to the senior to go shake his hand and uh I step on his Corfams.

PJ: Yeah, man.

Justin: He just says, "Get away from me."

Yep. And that that was pretty much my boot camp experience.

PJ: Okay. And and what I'm I'm just curious like as you're going to the fleet, what is what's going on up here at that time?

Justin: So, I I came home for I think 10 days and then I had to report back to Camp Geiger for School of Infantry. And um I can't remember how long that was. I want to say it was like three, four months maybe. And

PJ: that's a long time.

Justin: Yeah. Yeah. I want to say it was about that long. I could be wrong. But um so we get there and it's right from the gate. We're training again. And this is a little bit gets a little deeper into, you know, infantry tactics, handling weapons. Uh you're doing a lot of live fire. Um we're doing some MOUT training. Sure. and um you know things like that you know getting you prepared for you know the next phase getting to the fleet. So going through that and uh another funny story is I remember the the last week I was uh in School of Infantry couple guys were going to recon battalion and they were going to go to Virginia.

Well Virginia's out of bounds. You're not supposed to go to Virginia, but they would give you a battle buddy and you had to spend you had to spend the weekend with your battle buddy. Liked them or not, you had to be with them.

PJ: Yeah. Yeah.

Justin: Well, I tell my battle buddy and I said, "Hey, I'm going to Virginia. I need you to like keep a low profile." Well, he did the exact opposite of that. And he ended up getting arrested for uh being under the influence of meth and like had a complete freak out meth.

PJ: Yeah. Wow.

Justin: And uh I remember coming back and they were like, "You left your battle buddy." So I end up getting a page 11 for that.

PJ: Yeah.

— Um

— so we're we're all on the right foot here. Yeah. Just right from the get go from the gate. We're snowballing. We're not doing too good.

Justin: So uh after that I get to the fleet and they're all training. They're uh they're out doing some type of exercise and pretty much everyone left behind is either on medical or a short-timer and um I can remember there was they were people were stealing stuff out of the barracks so they wanted a roving watch on all the catwalks.

PJ: Sure.

Justin: So me being the new guy, I'm roving a catwalk and I come across a barracks room with door open. So I just look in I see two guys in civvies. Don't know who they are. never met him before in my life. And uh I kind of keep it moving and he hey come here. So I come back and I'm like yes. He's like how about yes, Lance Corporal. And I'm like oh okay time to go to Parade rest.

So I'm a private at this point.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: And uh so I go to parade rest and he's like who's your squad leader? And I'm like I don't know. I've never met him before.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: He says good. I'll let him know you don't know who he is. I'm like, "This is great. This is great." Uh, so, uh, they come back, I think about a week later, and then my cell phone rings. It's a number I don't know. And, uh, he says, "I hear you don't know who I am. I want you to meet me at the armory right now and don't walk." So, I hightail it to the armory and I'm like, "I don't know who I'm looking for." So, eventually he comes out of the crowd.

They're all like cleaning weapons and he says, "You don't know who I am." And I'm like, "No, corporal. I I've just never I've never met you before in my life." He says, "Good." He's like, "I'm busy, so I'm going to give you the Corporal Brown." So, Corporal Brown was from Boston, and he loved chewing. He always had a big lip in.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: And uh so he gives me to Corporal Brown. Corporal Brown says, he says, "You know, I'm short, so I'm not going to mess you up, but I want you to write your chain of command from your team leader to the president of the United States. and he says, "Don't miss any because I'll know." So, I proceed to do this.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: And it's a lot of people.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: You know, and I'm doing my research. This is before like internet's a super big thing. It's hard to find information. And um I come up with this great idea. So, I go back to Corporal Brown and I said, "Can I type it?" He said, "Sure." So, I proceed to type out all these names, right? We're talking over a hundred people, right? And uh I copy and paste it because he wants it 50 times. I copy and paste it and prints out stack like this. So, I wait a little bit and I finally I turn it into him and he's like, "This is great.

Just have one question. How do you spell president? I had misspelled president and copied and pasted it throughout that. And so now now uh now I'm integrity violator in the fleet.

PJ: Oh man.

Justin: So that starts a whole new ball game.

PJ: Yeah. Interesting. So So all right. I what I'm curious to hear from you is like what did that what did that do to you here?

Cuz how old were you at the time?

Justin: I think I was 21.

PJ: You were 21?

Justin: Yeah.

PJ: Okay. You've you've had very little life experience at this time

and you you have [expletive] up at boot camp at um at SOI or so.

Justin: Yeah. And now in the fleet.

— Mhm.

PJ: Like what what do you what's going through your head at that time?

Justin: I think at that point, man, I was like, dude, when does this end?

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: Like I just felt like I had a streak of bad luck going on. Um, and very demoralizing, we'll say in the moment.

PJ: Sure.

Justin: You know what I mean? But I'm like, I'm going to figure a way to to like get through this stuff.

PJ: Okay. Beautiful.

Justin: You know what I mean? I'm going to try to amend this some way.

PJ: Yeah. Okay. And then, so when do you leave for your first deployment?

Justin: So, we leave uh for our first deployment about six months later. So, we get uh we get to Kuwait and we flew in commercial jets over to Kuwait. And then from Kuwait, I want to say we took a C130 into Al Asad Air Base and this was an interesting experience.

Um, first time experiencing a combat landing.

So, so we're cruising and next thing you know, the C130s, no dive.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: And and the G's were so intense like things almost started to pick up a little bit like they were going to float.

And um

I thought we were crashing. I didn't know what was going on. There was no announcement like nothing like hey prepare you know prepare for dive or anything like that and um so we get to Al Asad and then from Al Asad we jumped on CH53s and we flew to a little patrol base um I can't remember what it was called though and from there we got into vehicles I remember we got in back of a seven ton up armored seven ton and we waited till nighttime and we pushed out to our position and we were in Ar Rutbah it was called kind of a small city

and we were kind of splitting the AO with Alpha Company we were Bravo Company and but right before we had pushed out from outside they uh they say hey we need to make a fourth platoon of Marines so what they started doing was cherrypicking from different squads and and platoon and things like that and then they took some guys from weapons platoon

they put us all together now granted a A lot of us didn't know each other. A lot of us didn't train together. So, there was like this like, how's this going to work? They called us the Bravo Bastards because nobody wanted us.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: So, we uh we ended up pushing out and I can remember my first five minutes um at our patrol base. They were like, "Hey, you're going over there to that post." So, I go to this post and there's like a Mark 19 up there. It's the middle of the night. There's a Marine sitting up there and he's just like, "Good luck." And he leaves. He don't tell me nothing. He

Hey, these this is your field of fire. This is what's out here or this is what you got to look out for. Nothing. Um and uh so ended up doing that that night. And um I can remember what really stood out to me, really opened my eyes up to this country was I remember I see this little dog running and a whole pack of dogs are chasing them. They're trying to eat them.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: I'm like, "Okay, we're in it. We're in it here. This is different over here."

PJ: Yeah, a little bit.

Okay. And what when did like what was that first deployment like?

Justin: So the first deployment um so we were we were pretty aggressive. So we had a couple different responsibilities. So we were running a vehicle checkpoint and then in between that you're doing guard duty or post.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: And then we're doing foot patrols and then sometimes we get tasked with a operation to go do so we do like cordons hard hits and things like that on houses. We would get intel that you know they were bomb makers. They were affiliated with insurgents somehow,

right? And we would go in these houses and we basically would raid the house, you know, during the foot patrols mostly was just uh for presence, let the enemy know, hey, we're here.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: And I think that really benefited us to an extent because we were so aggressive. I mean, we were out there every single day. Um I think the unit we replaced wasn't that aggressive. And um so basically things were were okay in the beginning getting our feet underneath us. So the main company was like in the city in a FOB and we were outside the city doing the checkpoint but then we would patrol on foot

into the city.

And um so what started happening was the local wildlife didn't really care for us and they would try to attack us. So we would unfortunately have to shoot these dogs. Yeah.

Before they bite us. I mean, they're diseased and all sorts of stuff.

Well, the insurgents took advantage of this and started putting uh IEDs in these dead animals. And so what we had to start doing was carrying gasoline with us to burn the dogs. That way they couldn't put bombs inside of them. Um, you know, we got attached to an operation with L once and we were sweeping through these cities and um, it was really weird though cuz we sat outside this village for like a good hour and some change just watching cars drive away. And I remember being extremely frustrated with that.

All of us were frustrated because, you know what I mean? We're we're grunts. We're like, there goes everybody who's no good. So, we get into the village and um it's just women and children home and I can remember going through all these houses and and anything that was there is gone. So, we get to this last house and my team leader is like, "Hey, did you check under the bed?" I'm like, "Dude, there's everything's gone." He says, "Check under the bed." So, I check under the bed and huge cache.

And inside his cache was a Thompson submachine gun. That's cool, man. And uh I remember we took all the weapons out. Now at this point we're tearing the whole house apart. We're finding hand grenades. We're finding everything.

PJ: Oh, I'm sure. Yeah.

Justin: And um we lay all the weapons out to to uh you know take photos of them and things like that and catalog them. And I remember the colonel comes over from L and he's like, "Oh, that's pretty cool." Picks up the Thompson submachine gun, clears it out, and he's like, "Have a nice day." And walks away with it.

PJ: Yeah. So, it's probably sitting on his wall somewhere,

right?

Justin: I'm sure,

you know, um, but the biggest thing with that first deployment was was the IEDs were the biggest the biggest problem.

Um, I mean, we got shot at a few times. Nothing too heavy. Uh, remember one time a guy, he engaged us, ran into a mosque, and there was like nothing we could do. Rules of engagement had really shifted. They were starting to turn more towards like the police action type stuff.

PJ: Hearts and minds,

Justin: right? the hearts and minds. Uh I can remember if we broke stuff

or if we engaged a vehicle that got too close to us, we'd have to fill out a claims card.

PJ: Wow.

Justin: You know, and things like that. Um yeah. So that's pretty much how that first deployment went.

PJ: Okay. So it sounds to me, if I were to paraphrase here, the the IEDs were probably something that stuck out to you a bit. Um because you don't really know what's going to happen when. And I remember for our conversation before too, like after you started burning the dogs, the insurgents started getting a little creative.

Justin: Yes.

With that as well.

PJ: So when you got back from the deployment then at that point, like how did things shape up? I mean, were you a little more um on on good graces of some people? Like how did things start to

Justin: Yeah. So on that deployment um I guess I really proved myself. So I ended up becoming I was the squad RTO.

Yeah. And my job was to communicate with hire with our command back at the back at our little patrol base and then also air. So we always had Cobras on station.

PJ: Oh, cool.

Justin: Uh which was nice. And um you know just I just thrived in that in that environment, you know what I mean? Like especially when uh bad things happened, you know, I kept my wits about me and I guess I showed some some leadership capabilities through that. So, you know, um it's funny, our squad leader, uh great guy. He was a sergeant and um he had came from 8th and I and a lot of people didn't have faith in him.

PJ: Okay. Yeah.

Justin: Cuz he didn't come from the grunt world,

PJ: right?

Justin: But he did a stellar job, you know, and he must have seen some something in me because when I came back, they were planning on keeping that fourth platoon, believe it or not, and they wanted me to be a squad leader.

PJ: Oh, cool. Wow.

Justin: Yeah. And and at this point I'm I I think uh I think I'm a Lance Corporal or had just picked up Lance Corporal at this point

and um which was like unheard of.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: Unheard of. Well, they ended up after a couple months deciding to all right, we're going to send everyone back to where they came from.

PJ: Okay.

Justin: So, I went back to first platoon and um they wanted me to be a team leader. So I ended up becoming the first team leader. So that's like the second to the squad leader,

right? And uh started doing the work up again. We got a bunch of new guys. And in the midst of that though, we got a bunch of guys from security forces. Uh I want to say 8th and I I'm not sure where we got we got a drop from somewhere else also. But a lot of these guys had a different cutting score to get promoted.

PJ: Okay. Yeah.

Justin: So So I remember this guy, he was brand new. He came from uh from security forces and he was like a real goofball and uh I didn't believe in hazing guys. I would mess with guys but I didn't believe in hazing just to haze.

PJ: Yeah. Sure.

Justin: Right. There has to be a purpose behind if we're doing any type of extra military activities. There has to be a lesson behind it. Um, but I had this guy take my trash out in the morning one one day and uh that afternoon he gets promoted to a corporal.

And uh

PJ: Oh, no.

Justin: He ends up becoming our uh our temporary squad leader because our squad leader was away at Sergeant's course.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: At squad leaders course. And uh grant I didn't get I he didn't he didn't give me no flack or nothing like that but a lot of these guys were starting to get promoted.

And so what was happening was now that guys who maybe didn't have combat experience or deployments were now becoming the leadership which concerned a lot of people.

PJ: Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

Justin: Um, granted it worked out in our previous deployment, but uh, a lot of people were butth hurt, which I get it. So, squad leader comes back. We're doing the work up. I'm training my guys. Um, we're not 100% sure where we're going in Iraq yet, but we're going back. So, this time we uh, we get in the country. Um, it's like night and day now. IEDs are still an issue. you know, people are still getting killed, so it's still it's business. Um, but basically our job now was to train with Iraqi police to kind of get them squared away

so they can kind of do their job.

And um, so we did that for about 3 months and then we pushed from the whole way from Habbaniyah, which is not too far from Fallujah. We pushed the whole way north. We drove to the Syrian border and pretty much our job was is trying to find bad guys, find weapons, stop people from coming across that probably don't belong in the country because a lot of foreign fighters were still coming in through Syria and things like that.

Um, you know, IEDs were still a big issue,

still a big problem. Um, and we were expeditionary this time, so we're sleeping in ranger graves in the middle of the desert. Uh if we got lucky, we we got some to sleep in a structure somewhere, but for the most part, we were outside on that deployment.

PJ: And Okay. So, how was So, it sounds like that deployment was was kind of I don't know, not uh not dynamic. That be

Justin: not as much. Not as much. No.

PJ: Okay.

Justin: No.

PJ: So, at that point, are you nearing the end of your four years?

Justin: I'm pretty close. Uh, I'm going to say I got I think about three years in and um I think by the time we came back I had I had a little under a year I think.

PJ: Okay.

Justin: A little under.

PJ: So talk to me about that. Like what was who were you at that point? Because I know I know combat deployments uh talking to like Freddy and some of the other people like that the effects that it has on them obviously with whatever trauma they experience at that time um can manifest in different ways. Mhm.

How did it manifest in you coming back from maybe that second deployment?

Justin: So, I remember, you know, coming back from those deployments, they had always do a a post and a pre-eployment assessment on your mental well-being and things like that. And you were always encouraged to lie.

PJ: Yeah. Yeah. I'm familiar.

Justin: You know, and also too, you know, I I didn't have a lot of emotional intelligence at that point in time. It's very angry, you know, um very distorted belief system, very negative, uh which on a certain level suits you well in that environment.

PJ: Sure.

Justin: Uh because it kind of keeps you keeps you frosty, keeps you motivated.

And um I think what really my downfall was where it started is I no longer had responsibility because I had decided, you know what, I don't know if I really believe in this anymore. I think um I think I'm going to get out and uh when I finally made that decision, you know, when I got short enough, when I had about six months left, you know, my only job was to play OPFOR for for the squads, you know, play the bad guys,

uh do some, you know, hip pocket classes and things like that, show up to formation, and then it slowly dwindled down to the point where like I just had to show up to formation And that's when the drinking started,

you know, uh I really got a case of the efforts and I was very disgruntled, I think, at that point in time. And um I didn't know what I was dealing with. I didn't understand I was dealing with depression, anxiety, post-traumatic stress disorder. Like I didn't understand that I was living with that stuff.

PJ: Sure.

Justin: But like I always think of like when you're in it, right? You know, I think about people like, "How can people do the things they do?"

But when you're in it,

that that's the culture, right? It's you don't see it.

And I think when you get removed from certain things, you still don't see it, but it affects you differently,

you know. So, those last couple months, I started drinking a lot. And, you know, I used to be really responsible. I only drink on the weekends, you know, maybe maybe a weekday here and there. It depends.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: But it was never heavy.

But when I no longer had responsibility, it became a daily recurrence,

you know, to the point where I'm showing to formation still drunk.

And um I can remember I ended up back on the radar because uh they had a a companywide PT session.

PJ: Oh no.

Justin: So I show up to formation half drunk and um they go take off on their run. I walk back to my room. So like an hour change comes by goes by and uh oh that guy that I had uh take my trash out when I he was a lance corporal. He had become a sergeant now.

PJ: Oh wow. Okay.

Justin: And he comes and knocks on my door and he's like hey first sergeant's looking for you. The whole company's getting pted until you show up.

PJ: Oh no.

Justin: Yeah.

PJ: Oh no. You're that guy now.

Justin: I'm that guy.

Yeah. So I come walking out and our first sergeant at the time had just came from the drill field. So he was intense.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: He's like sprint.

So I run over to him, you know, go to parade rest and uh he says, "What's your deal? You don't think you have to PT?" I didn't really know what to say. And my platoon sergeant comes over and uh first sergeant's like, "You know this Marine?" He's like, "Yeah, that's right. He's he's good to go." He's like, "You don't have a problem with him?" He's like, "No, he's he's squared away." He's like, "All right, roger that. Come see me later."

So, I think the first sergeant now, he he saw something was going on.

PJ: Yeah, sure.

Justin: So, he took an opportunity to kind of try to mentor me.

PJ: Oh, good.

Justin: And, you know, he's like, "What do you got? What's going on with you?"

Well, like I said, I lacked insight. I just figured I was a short-timer and I just didn't care. Um, I'm like, "Nothing really." He says, "You're fine. you're good to go. I'm like, I'm good to go. And I was that. And um that's when uh drinking continued. And you know, there was some painkillers thrown in the mix there. And um I can remember, you know, I think we talked about this before. I can remember taking those painkillers thinking this is what normal people feel like.

PJ: Yeah. you know,

statement, man.

Justin: Yeah.

PJ: Let's flip that on on its head. What were you feeling like during the course of a standard day?

Justin: Mhm.

PJ: That would make you think that that's what normal people feel like?

Justin: I was just jacked up. You know, I was depressed. I was anxious. You know, I was very angry. And in the in that moment, all that stuff went away.

This got real quiet. my mind got real quiet and I just felt at ease, you know, for the first time in a long time. And um the problem with that is I'll say this, I believe I was born with the disease of more. So anything that feels good, I have a problem doing in moderation.

PJ: Sure.

Justin: Now granted, I didn't understand that at that point in time. Um but I wanted to continue chasing that feeling.

PJ: And how much of this do you think was from like you brought into the military and how much of it do you think was contributed during while in while in the military?

Justin: Well, they that that's that's a that's a tough question to answer. You know, I don't really know. I really don't know. Um I think a lot of times when we deal with trauma we we look we look external for answers,

— right?

Justin: Yes. you know, things that make us feel better. And it could be from, you know, spending money to sex, you know, to prestige, you know, and substances is a big thing, you know, uh, you know, the Marine Corps drinking is like it's good until you get in trouble and then it's like, oh, what are you doing? Yeah. But it's it's condoned. It's encouraged. I mean, we have entire balls where where the the whole purpose is to look nice and get drink the

grog.

PJ: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got you. So, you were also telling me about a time at at at a range where where there was a a probably pretty significant event that that occurred. Can you walk us through that?

Justin: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so this is one of those opportunities where I was I was a training officer. I was a range safety officer and basically my job was we were going to do a live fire range. We were going to do bound and movement and uh a lot of the new guys have never done anything like that. did a little bit in maybe so SOI and things like that, but this was a little different. And um so basically my job is to make sure everyone stayed in their lane when they were bounding, you know.

So one marine stays, one marine's moving, that one sets, and they just bound up to the target and just to make sure no one gets in front of each other and everyone's being safe. So me and this other Marine were sitting on a burm. I think I'm smoking a cigarette. There's a formation to my right and they're handing out ammunition. And um couple minutes goes by and I hear a shot go off and I'm like that's strange because no one should be around in the chamber condition one until they're in front of me. What? Like what just happened? So I look over the formation disperses and I see a marine laying out of a port of John.

And in the moment I didn't quite fully understand what happened, but I just remember just like how we deal with stuff with the dark humor. I remember looking to the Marine to my left and I said, "That's why we don't go to the field on the weekends." And that's just like,

"Yeah, I get it."

You know what I mean?

And um I can remember they came out and NCIS shows up. So I had to walk past the body and I remember going to go walk past it and say, "Don't look at it. You don't want to look at it." Well, I looked at it and I still don't I don't know who I didn't know who it was. So, pretty much what had had what happened was is he got his ammunition and he went into Portage John. He shot himself.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: Don't know why. Um and uh you know I I can remember that impacted a lot of people.

PJ: Yeah, I bet. You know, because it's one thing to lose Marines in combat because you have something to let that that anger out on.

Justin: Absolutely. There's a different external source,

right? With this, it's like we just had a Marine take his life. What do we do now?

PJ: Yeah. And there was a a particular officer that made a comment. Yeah.

Justin: Mhm. So the the battalion commander, which we'll leave unnamed, comes out and he tries to do this big moto speech about you're going to see dead Marines get used to this.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: And being as a range safety officer in the moment, I didn't feel comfortable running the range.

PJ: Absolutely.

Justin: Uh we had 19, 20 year old guys who just probably seen their first dead person. And um I can remember saying to the colonel, I said, "I don't feel comfortable running this range." And he questioned me. He said, "Who are you? I'm Corporal Wright and I'm your range safety officer and I don't feel comfortable running this range." And um I remember I got chewed out pretty bad for that later on. But uh they end up kinking the training.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: Which was good.

PJ: Yeah. Absolutely.

Justin: You know, because it just it didn't it wasn't safe.

PJ: Yeah, I would say so. I would say that did that probably had quite an effect um in a lot of ways on a lot of people probably yourself included. Would you agree?

Justin: Yeah. Yeah, it definitely impacted me. You know um since coming back coming back home I hate saying I think I've lost count but it's at least 20 20 guys that I served with who that we lost either to addiction or by their own hand.

PJ: Wow. That's significant, man.

Justin: Yeah.

PJ: So, all right. You come home

and like what starts happening? Drinking is already starting to become an issue. You're already dabbling with with drugs. Like what's what what starts happening at that point?

Justin: So, at that point, um this is a heck of a cautionary tale. I remember getting into a a relationship with someone. And the thing about relationships, you know, I would I never really thought things through when it came to relationships. Like I always thought that the one I was with was the one. And I got in this relationship, didn't fully understand this person and what they were about, what they're involved with. And they had a they had a painkiller habit. And just so happened that, you know, painkillers work for pain and emotional pain.

PJ: Absolutely.

Justin: And um so over time I started dabbling in these things every once in a while. And the thing about addiction is it gets the hooks in you and next you know it's every day.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: And now you're hooked. And um the progression of that happened really quick. I think in one s my plan was to take the summer off, enjoy the summer and then become a police officer. Let summer turn into seven years.

PJ: Wow, that's significant. And what was that seven years like?

Justin: So the first uh I would say the first year when I got out, I can remember a lot of people would tell me something is wrong with me. Like people I knew, people I grown up with, my family, like something was off. And I'm like, I'm fine. Like, what are you talking about?

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: And um so I I deep I dove deep into this addiction. It got a hold of me pretty bad. And I went from doing painkillers to doing heroin to doing whatever you put in front of me. And uh it got to the point where I'd go to any extent to continue that habit because the fear of the withdrawal. um and al also the positive feelings that would come with it you know um and that went on for about seven years.

PJ: So okay I am curious what what did the Marines give you or being in the Marine Corps give you that nothing in your else in your life could have?

Justin: I think what it gave me is is it gave me a sense of duty. Uh even though I was a heck of an integrity violator, it gave me some integrity. Um you know, and a lot of people go to discipline. For years, I I've lacked discipline. I lacked it. Um I'd say today though, we have some discipline.

PJ: Would you say you lacked it or would you say maybe it just wasn't in a structure that was um useful?

Justin: Yeah, that that's a good way to put that. You know, I think all my energy for a long time went towards the negative that anything positive was just pushed to the side

PJ: because you're disciplined about taking the the painkillers, right?

Justin: Yeah.

PJ: I find that an an interesting distinction, right? Because I think that a lot of us there's there's I've heard before there's plenty of people that think that the discipline goes away,

but I think that discipline is is either malformed or no longer put towards a useful

end.

Justin: Mhm.

PJ: So, was there anything that prepared you for getting out of the military?

Justin: So, I remember uh I think it was like a week period where you had some classes about, hey, do you want to go work on an oil rig or do you want to become an Onslow County Sheriff? But there was nothing like, "Hey, if you have these things going on, you can get help." And I can remember um

PJ: Do you think you would have heard it if there was?

Justin: Well, I'll tell you this, you know, I forgot about this point is I was real short at this point. I think I had like two, three months left and my unit was working. They were getting ready to go to Afghanistan. And I remember going to my command cuz I something happened where I I was like, "Something's not right. Something's not right." And I think a lot of it was when I would drink, I would black out. I would do really crazy stuff. And it got to the point where I noticed people around me were kind of cautious. They didn't want to go out with me no more.

PJ: Oh, really?

Justin: They didn't, you know what I mean? They're like, "When drinks, it's bad.

Don't hang out with him." And um I remember going to my command and saying, "Hey, I I don't think I feel like something doesn't feel right. I'm kind of concerned of going home the way I feel." And I can remember being in front of the gunnery sergeant and um he says, "What are you claiming?" I was like, "I don't I don't understand what you mean, Gunny." He says, "You're going to make a VA claim, right?" I was like, "I don't I don't know what that is.

I just know I don't want to go home feeling the way I feel. And I remember I would get these appointments to sit down with professionals. But so happened we would have training in the field and they told me training in the field takes priority. So I I can't Yeah. I completely forgot about that portion of there was a point where I I reached out and my hand was not taken.

PJ: Yeah. And do you think that's common?

Justin: Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, it's the culture. It's the alpha male culture. You know, you know, you go to sick call, you're a [expletive] You know what I mean?

PJ: I know what you mean. I know exactly what you mean.

Justin: You know, things like that. If you ask for help, like there's something wrong with you. There needs to be some We need to do something with you. We need to get rid of you.

PJ: Yeah, I got you. What would you maybe say to someone right now who maybe notices a behavior like what you just described in one of their friends?

Justin: I think the biggest thing you want to do is is be honest. Have an honest conversation with them. Um I find that not everyone's going to be receptive, but when we plant these seeds, right, we plant seeds in people. Yeah,

when we're honest with them, a lot of times people I feel like

they tiptoe around military and veterans because they're like, "I don't want to set you off, but I see all these things going on with you." So then nobody says anything,

right?

And then something detrimental happens and they're like, "I didn't see this coming or I wish I would have said something," you know?

PJ: Yeah. And what would you maybe invite them to say?

Justin: I would say, you know, I see what's happening. I see what's going on. I'm here to help you. I want to help you.

I'll do whatever it takes to help you. You know, and I think also coming with resources is important because it's one thing to want to help but then not know what to do.

Say they say they're like, "Yeah, I I want to get some help." But we got to know where we're going to send people.

PJ: I totally I totally understand that. And where would they find those resources?

Justin: So, it depends. Um, you know, so like pretty much what I do for a living is I'm I'm a resource guy. And um do we want to dive into that?

PJ: Um well, maybe maybe just give like a a quick we'll get there, but I mean like a quick like where could someone start to find resources?

Justin: I think for for our military and veterans, you want to start with the VA. Start with the VA. There's also a lot of uh military and veteran nonprofits in the area. Um you can just Google them, you know, I know of quite a few like, you know, that would be willing to help. And I what I find is is if they can't do it, they're going to find someone who can

who's going to help. But I think starting at your local VA is is your number one stop.

PJ: Okay. Thank you. So, for for at this point, you know, you're you're in it now. Seven years, man. It's it's a long time, right? Like,

what was it that made things change? Like what was maybe bottom or what what was the thing that woke you up?

Justin: So, you know, uh, finally what happened was the addiction had gotten so bad that I had would get so desperate that I'd be willing to go to any length to get a dollar to get the next one. At that point, now I'm I'm alone. I have spent time in Kensington. um you know, sleeping in a car, homeless, sleeping in laundry mats, things like that, homeless shelters. Uh I've been been numerous rehabs at the VA, PTSD programs, um domiciliaries for homelessness. I had been through all of it.

And the thing was is I don't know if it was so much that I had become so lost or I felt like I was the example of how not to live your life. Like that's how far I had fallen because I really believed that I no longer had anything positive to to give the world that I was going to be the example of how not to live your life.

Yeah. And so finally for bottom is I end up getting in trouble. Um you know I got arrested twice in the same day and you know I I end up becoming incarcerated for a little bit and I was offered an opportunity to participate in a veterans uh court program and um now mind you I I had lost my license due to a DUI. So, the only way for me to get around was public transportation at that point in time and had to make a lot of appointments, but I had I had I still had not admitted to what I was dealing with.

PJ: Yeah, sure.

Justin: You know, I I still was really caught up in this victim mentality.

PJ: Yeah, I got you.

Justin: And so, finally, you know, I think rock bottom was, you know, fortunately I did not graduate that veterans program. Um, I ended up getting re-sentenced and when I I ended up getting sentenced to a year in jail and I can remember being in there and um spending a lot of time exercising, reading books, and eating and staying out of the way. But I can remember this one day uh specifically, I remember these guys, they they found I was a a vet somehow. So he started popping these milk bottles uh milk uh not milk bottle but uh cartons

— cartons milk cartons

Justin: and uh they had seen that it would it had it was bothering because it's loud. Yeah.

PJ: Right. Vet or not vet like it's going to bother you

Justin: and I can remember yelling at them.

You know first I asked them please don't do that anymore. And then the second time I yelled at him. Well, one of them didn't like that and we got in an altercation and um I ended up going to the hole for this and that was the best thing that could have happened to me.

PJ: Talk to me about that.

Justin: So, in the whole you have nothing.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: You know, they bring you your food, they let you out, I think maybe once or twice a week to shower, but you're in there by yourself. And I can remember that was the first time I was free from any type of stimulation uh outside um anything that made me feel good. Like I didn't have my books. I didn't have people to conversate with. Didn't have commissary to eat.

PJ: Nothing to hide.

Justin: Nothing to hide. Yeah.

Right. And I had to face myself for the first time.

And I think that's really where I made the decision of like I don't want to do this anymore. I don't know how I'm not going to do it anymore, but I'm going to figure it out. I'm going to figure this out somehow. And um that's where the change started.

PJ: Wow. I know there's there's some uh some meditation or I guess like uh retreats where where they do these these dark retreats in like these rooms for for 90 days. And I' I've heard some amazing things.

Um and I've also heard of people maybe losing their faculties going into the hole as well. It's interesting that it had an opposite effect on you.

How did you first approach yourself in that situation?

Justin: Like after that?

PJ: No, no, during

during it.

Justin: Yeah.

Believe it or not, that's for me, you know, where it really started is I really started to communicate with something

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: greater than myself.

PJ: Okay.

Justin: Because I had to talk to somebody.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: you know, and um I can remember really thinking about a lot of the things that I had done, things I had put my family through, my friends. Um, one thing I didn't really talk about uh initially was is when I was deep in it in the addiction, I hit a lot of guys up I served with for money

with intentions to pay it back with no means,

right? And a lot of those guys, they didn't they they caught on to what was going on and they obviously didn't support that, which is one, you know, totally understand that, but a lot of them turned their back on me.

PJ: Sure.

Justin: Because of it.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: And a lot of shame attached to that. So, I was able to start making some peace with some of these things. Um and that was really healing for me because I think a lot of a lot of stuff that was attached to the anxiety, the depression, the PTSD was also shame.

PJ: Yeah, absolutely.

Justin: You know, and moral injury and like going against all my human nature.

PJ: Okay. So, you were discovering who you were and becoming more congruent with that.

Justin: Mhm.

PJ: Was there any sort of like deep work that you were doing at that time? Like like anything structured or was it just literally

Justin: It was literally me in the in the walls.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: And and communicating with a higher power if you want to call it that.

PJ: Okay. So what happened after you got out?

Justin: So finally after I I did my time I got released to a program in Quakertown and I remember I had burned all the bridges. No VA would take me back. No rehab would take me. This was the last straw. So, I remember going to this program and during the intake, they stopped and they said, "We're really confused why you're here. You seem like you can take care of yourself and other people here can't. And we're just really confused of why you're here." And I said, "Well, I I was sent here.

I have a I have a drug problem." They're like, "No, we get that." But this place for people with like traumatic brain injuries and maybe some severe mental health and uh I knew in that moment like this was it. This is the last stop. There's no more chances.

Um so stayed there as a residential program. Stayed there for I don't know I want to say nine months.

PJ: And what did that what did it do for you?

Justin: So what I would do is is I would just stay at stay there, eat meals there, but then during the day I would go to outpatient, intensive outpatient. Yeah. Basically that that was groups group therapy, one-on-one therapy, um you know, for the substance use and the mental health and things like so they kind of attack both at the same time,

right? which they say now is probably one of the the better ways to go about things because people are always what do you treat first the mental health or the addiction

but what if what if we do both

and uh so I started doing that and I had plans to go back to where I came from

once I completed this program I don't know why because it was comfortable I guess

but then something was like stay here stay here

and I listened to it

yeah Um, you know, and eventually I I completed that program and I moved into my my own my first apartment. Not my first, but moved into an apartment.

— Yeah. Since then,

Justin: and um tell you, my landlord really took a chance on me. You know, I'm I'll always be grateful for him. I remember, you know, I was very transparent with him. So, I got huge gaps in my employment, residency. I have a history. and he says, "I'm going to give you a chance."

PJ: So, you went from being an integrity violator

as a trend to really owning something and having integrity.

Justin: Mhm.

PJ: What would you say that bit of honesty did for you in your own recovery?

Justin: I think that's where a lot of healing started was the being honest with myself because I had been dishonest for so long about things. Um, denying what I was dealing with, denying what I was doing to people,

what I was doing to myself. I always thought of never thought of myself. You know what I mean? It never thought of my well-being. It was just what can I do next to feel better? M

what what can I do to feel normal?

PJ: Pure survival,

right? Animalistic type stuff.

Justin: Absolutely.

And you know, eventually that honesty really opened things up where I could tell people who I really was. And that's where healing really started.

PJ: Was that hard?

Justin: At first it was. You know, um I'll say that I started going to a a program after I moved into that apartment and was fool a lot of people. I remember sometimes there'd be like 60 70 people in a room and I'm like I don't know about this. This is a lot. And I would sit in the way back and as soon as it was over I would leave. I wouldn't talk to nobody. And I remember uh eventually I got cornered by these two guys. And I'm grateful for them too. Right. There's a lot of people in the journey that played a part

PJ: absolutely

Justin: in me getting to where I am today. Yeah. Um, they cornered me and they wanted to know about me. They were asking me questions about myself that no one had ever asked me before, you know, cuz you come from the world of the military. No one's asking, "Hey, how you feel today?"

PJ: Right.

Justin: You know.

PJ: Yeah. No.

Justin: World of addiction. No one's asking how you doing. They're asking you, "Hey, when can we get the next one?" Or, "Hey, how can we get a come up to get some more?" It was never It was It was the first time anyone asked me, "Tell me about yourself. you know, and uh so I started to open up a little bit.

PJ: What would you what would you maybe suggest to someone in that situation? Someone who is avoidant of reality.

Justin: Mhm.

PJ: and is so deep in trying to cover up pain and shame

that maybe they're in a similar situation where they don't maybe they don't even want to get out of the house. Like what would you say to that person?

Justin: You got to find the motivation. See, the the big thing is you got to have enough. You got to you got to be sick and tired of it. There got to and there has to be some type of consequence.

PJ: So, you do think that people need to hit like that rock bottom?

Justin: I I in my experience what I see a lot of times not everyone needs to

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: Sometimes it takes someone who's been there or who's willing to be there to be like, "Hey, I understand what you're going through. I want to help you."

I want to help you. The thing is, do you want to help yourself?

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: Because there's a lot of See, I say this a lot. I'm really interested in people who want help,

right? Not that people that need help are not important and I'm not interested in them, but there's a difference.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: People who want help are willing to walk.

People who need help sometimes aren't willing

to walk.

PJ: You have to be a part of your own rescue.

Justin: Exactly.

PJ: Okay. So, all right. So, what like how how did the arc go now? Like how did you now get onto the path where where now you're an intervention specialist and you're you're now helping others and and you're, you know, a thriving individual?

Justin: So it started with those two guys and uh which then led me to my first mentor and uh you know it was funny. I used to have these barriers up with people.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: First that was if you weren't in the military you can't help me. But say you were in the military but you were in the Marine Corps you can't help me.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: Oh you were in the Marine Corps but you didn't see nothing. You can't help me. Oh, you saw some stuff but you didn't, you know, you didn't come from where I came like all these barriers.

PJ: Then uh what Ben calls that um chronic uniqueness, right?

Justin: Yes.

PJ: Got it.

Justin: Yes. Um so what I had to start doing was letting that go. I had become so beat down that I was willing to do whatever it took. So all those barriers melted away. And so my mentor um he really helped me to start to see myself for who I really am and what recovery is really about. So one thing he taught me is is love wins over everything.

Yeah. And that also on the same hand recovery doesn't equal pleasure. So I used to think well I'm not using drugs and alcohol anymore. I'm not committing crimes. I'm not hurting people. Life should be perfect. And he taught me, no, life isn't going to be perfect. It's what we do with it.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: You know, how do we how do we go through those things?

And um taught me a lot. He really taught me a lot. And um you know, turns out he was a Marine. When I when I asked him to to kind of help me, I didn't know he was a Marine. And um so we had that kind of in common. And uh we would go on trips together, things like that. We'd spend time on I mean I'd call him every single day on the phone. Um you know I I don't think I've ever talked to a man that much before in my life.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: You know and he really helped me to to see that also I'm not I'm still not a victim that I played a part in majority of the bad stuff that happened in my life.

PJ: Absolutely.

Justin: You know that um I'm not what my mind thinks I am. I'm not as bad or I'm not as good as I think I am,

you know, and that there's a balance for those things. So, you know, he really helped guide me to become start to become the man that I was always supposed to be, you know, and that's the thing with with addiction and mental health. It robs us from of ourselves. So,

PJ: yeah, absolutely.

Justin: You know, so what ended up happening was is, you know, he ended up getting uh diagnosed with cancer

and he got really sick. And uh the thing about him is he didn't change, which sent a message to everyone around him. I couldn't tell you anyone that didn't like this guy. And uh up until the day he went home, as he called it, I remember sitting on his porch one day and uh he says, "Hey, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to miss you, but I'm ready to go. The big thing is you have to be okay with that. You have to find a way to be okay with that." And uh so he ended up passing away.

And so I had to find another mentor and you know kind of go through that process. But in in the midst of all that I had started uh working which I hadn't worked in a in a while. And my job was to help people as they came into this little drop in recovery center and help connect them to resources or you know have conversations with them. And I remember um you know uh guys from Victory House, they bring some veterans up to just kind of connect and things like that.

And um that's where it all kind of started. And then I became a uh a certified recovery specialist um and uh started working one-on-one with people as as peer support.

Yeah. And um you know that was that was a new experience right there because you meet a lot of different people in different phases in their life.

Sure. And trying to help them. Um I people say your job has to be rewarding and it's not why I do it right. I do it because I feel like it's the right thing to do. Like people gave me some stuff gave me some knowledge. I have gained some knowledge. It's I have an o I have a not only an opportunity but an obligation to give it back.

PJ: I love that. And I think so it sounds like to me like one of the one of the gifts that your mentor gave you was the gift of responsibility. I think one of one of the things that I I resonate very deeply with when one of the people I I admire very much on on like the social media is is Alex Hormozi. And one of the things he he talks about is wherever you point your finger is where the power goes,

right? And when we're in those situations where we're a victim, the it's constantly out there, right? So the power goes out there. So you have no power to change the situation. And until you can learn to do this,

now you have the power to change things.

And it sounds to me, would would you agree that that's like the gift that he gave you?

Justin: Absolutely. Absolutely. To see ourselves for who we truly are, right? Not what what we think the world thinks we should be, right? Because I I used to think the world thought I should be a certain way

and I was never able to be my true self, you know? Um well, like one thing about me is I'm naturally intrusive. This is who I am. And I've made peace with that.

PJ: Intrusive.

Justin: Yeah. Like I I I'm very um I like my solitude, you know what I mean? And there's a difference between the solitude and the isolation, right? Try not to isolate.

PJ: Yeah, absolutely.

Justin: Isolation is no good, but I like my solitude.

Um it's funny, you know, so we went to a uh the downtown police ball this this past weekend, me and my wife, we stayed for about two hours and we're like, "Time to go time to go home."

Yeah. you know, um because we don't drink, you know what I mean? It was nice seeing some people show support, things like that, but

you know, uh I like I like my salt, dude.

PJ: I understand that. I mean, I understand that. I think that actually having the time to sit and think,

which it sound like the whole did for you,

set sets a precedence because it it allows us to really know ourselves if we allow ourselves to know ourselves,

right? So if you like what are the things now someone comes to you and they're they're in desperate need of help

like walk me through that because you you just you said something interesting that I completely understand and agree with that if they're not willing to help themselves there's not a whole lot you can do but but help me like what would you say to someone in that scenario to maybe plant that seed

in order to hopefully crack them open to being willing to help themselves.

Justin: So, pretty much um so what I do now is I work with all the police departments in Lehigh County. And you know, a lot of times law enforcement, first responders, they're meeting people on their worst days. Law enforcement is changing, right? Granted, they still enforce the law. they have to do their job. But when they see someone they engage with who needs help, they kind of ask myself and there there's um how many of those? Five or six of us. And um you know, prime example, I sat down with with someone the other day and uh they were drunk at 9:00 in the morning and they say that uh you know I I I'm going to this program.

I'm going to this program and I said the program is not working. You're it's 9:00 in the morning. You're drunk. Let's maybe let's think about these things. Right? And I I won't ever try to come with judgment.

PJ: Sure.

Justin: You know what I mean? I try to come with understanding. When I find it appropriate, I'll open up like, "Look, I've been there. I've been there. I I know what you're feeling. I know you probably feel hopeless. You know, you probably feel shameful or you feel like there's nothing. There's no problem right now.

But it's nine o'clock in the morning. You're drunk.

And your average person doesn't do that. and I just want to help you. You know, I'll leave my business card, try to plant the seed with them, let them know, hey, look, no judgment here. I'm I'm open open book. When you're ready, you know, I'm going to keep following up with you. I'm going to keep checking on you. Um, but when you're ready, you can call me, you know, and I find there's a little difference between mental health and addiction with the approach. Sometimes mental health, especially severe mental mental health, schizophrenia, things like that, it takes time. You got to build that rapport. They got to trust you.

PJ: Absolutely.

Justin: Um they got to believe that you're really here to help them. And you know, even little slight shifts in behavior is a win, you know. And um I've had people where I met them a year ago, they call me a year later, I'm ready. And I think just coming from without that judgment,

PJ: yeah,

Justin: they're like, "All right, I can I can call this guy."

PJ: Dude, I totally agree with that. I think that one of the the most harmless harmless harmful things that we do as a society are place labels on people.

Justin: Mhm.

PJ: You know, like I look at I look at our our jail system and and our correction system, right? Someone goes in there, they're labeled as a bad guy.

Justin: Yep.

PJ: You know, a bad person. And especially if you're pointing out there and you're looking out there for external validation, right? Who are you?

I'm a bad person. I'm a bad guy.

Right? And you even said yourself like you were the world thought of you in a certain way, right? I think that what you're what you're saying here in allowing someone to maybe even define themselves because I'm not going to put something a label on you. I'm not here to judge you

in ways allows them to flourish or or blossom because they don't have to fit a mold.

Justin: Yeah.

PJ: Yep. What um if you had to go back and talk to what 23 24 year old Justin Wright getting out of the military

and make sure that some things were put in place to help that person.

What What would that be?

Justin: I think, you know, coming out of out of the service, there needs to be some level of, I don't know, examination, something something along those lines to get people prepared. That way, you're not walking out the door with severe substance use and severe mental health going on and, you know, you just nose dive. One big thing, and I I left this part out, that summer before things got really really deep. This is where, you know, you always got to ask somebody else about things. And the reason why I say that is because you can believe a lie really quick.

So, I remember I was uh I was touring a college and um I was going to go for criminal justice, used the GI Bill and all that. And I remember walking around with with this with the lady and uh I don't know how it came up. She she asked me if I have a background. I saw I had some juvenile stuff like underage drinking and things like she's like, "Oh, can't be a police officer."

PJ: Oh, man. She put a she planted a limiting belief into you.

Justin: Yeah.

PJ: Wow.

Justin: And see, and that's one thing where a lot of my life I believed lies people told me.

Yeah. you know, um, when I was in school, right, teachers told me, "Oh, you're not going to be like all the other kids, you know what I mean? You're not going to function in life like everyone else, right?"

You know, cuz I had behavior issues.

I was bored, you know? I learned about the Civil War every year.

I It never got past it. I was bored.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: And uh they put labels on me.

PJ: Absolutely.

Justin: And I believe those labels for years.

Yeah. And uh I believe those lies and uh kind of like the book. Do you ever read the book Four Agreements?

PJ: Oh yeah. You ever read the Fifth Agreement?

Justin: No.

PJ: Yeah. Yes. There's a new one.

— Oh boy.

— No, but I hear you. It's a fantastic fantastic book.

— Mastery of Love too is another really good one that he wrote. Sorry. Go ahead. No, you're good. What were you gonna say about it?

Justin: Um, just pretty much like how, you know, I remember reading that and them talking about how this daughter and and this mother were in an argument and the mother said, you know, she hates when her daughter sings cuz she sounds horrible

and the daughter took that on. Yeah.

And never sang again.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: And I could really identify with that. So now I don't I don't believe those those lies and and this this information that people are it's coming from you know I always ask you know don't believe the lie.

PJ: Yeah, I I completely agree. And I think a lot of times too, like from the person who's saying it, it's it's harmless or I shouldn't say harmless, it's innocent,

right? They're coming from a place because they think they're protecting you or they think they're they're telling you a cautionary tale,

right? But instead, what they're doing are planting seeds

in in a way that doesn't serve you,

right? What? Um, so I I am curious and and I'd like to help someone maybe if they're in this situation now where they're they're about to get out of the military and,

you know, maybe things seem a little bleak or hopeless or maybe they do have a lie that's been planted in their head.

Um, like what would you tell that person? They haven't gone down the slope yet,

right? but they're about to go down that rabbit hole of getting out and and maybe stumbling and falling. How would you help prepare that person? What would you tell them to do? Well,

Justin: I'd tell them that we don't have to go that way. That there is help out there. It's okay to see and this is the thing where uh you know I grew up in the generations of Chuck Norris, Jean-Claude Van Damme, Sylvester Stallone that you know what I mean the tough guys.

Yeah. And you know the thing with those movies, they never show what probably happens after they experience all these things

and allowing ourselves to be vulnerable, right? Complete opposite of what what the alpha world tells us, you know, suck it up, lift more weights, drink creatine, right? The thing is is that eventually your body's going to break down.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: You're going to hurt yourself and then what are you going to do?

You know what I mean? And It's okay to feel what we feel. I you know what I mean? I have had to admit that I have to allow myself to feel things.

PJ: Absolutely.

Justin: And that getting help isn't weakness. It's the exact opposite. Strength because it takes courage to be like, "Hey, I need help." You know, and the thing with helping is you got to help. When someone asks for you help, you got to help them because that might be your only opportunity to help them.

PJ: Yeah. Well, I think you're touching on something too like identity.

Justin: Mhm.

PJ: in ways, right? Because and and you know, we talk a lot about this uh in in our in our social channels, right? But of if you allow something externally to define your identity, you know, it's it's fragile. You know, you talked about this the strong man like go lift weights, like uh do whatever. But if your body does break down, who are you now?

Who are you now? Heaven forbid you have an accident and now you're paralyzed. Who are you now?

Justin: Right.

PJ: Right. It's it's it's coming from in here that really counts, right? Like maybe I'm an int an integrous person.

You know, maybe maybe I'm honest. Maybe I'm loving whatever it may be. It's I think that's the the work is defining that piece because now now it's not as fragile, right? You get into a car accident and now you're paralyzed. You can still be an integrous person. you can still be honest.

— That's not taken away from you.

PJ: Yeah. I I love it, man. Um what's uh what's your favorite book?

Justin: My favorite book I you know, might be a little biased, but uh right now Struggle Well, Struggle Wells is is it's funny because is this what I mean by everything kind of happens the way it's supposed to happen, right? when we stay in position and do and just do the right thing, good things will happen. Remember years ago, um I met this this woman and she wanted to do something in memory of her brother and I just was like what did he like? She like he liked reading and I said why don't we make a library in his memory.

PJ: Oh wow.

Justin: So we created it. It's called uh Victor's Corner and um one of the books that was got ordered was Struggle Well you know thriving in the aftermath of trauma and this is about four or five years ago came across this book and I remember just really identifying with the post-traumatic growth instead of just like PTSD or PTS or whatever you know what I mean these these labels that you get slapped on you

and um I really appreciate the post-traumatic growth portion. So, here we are, fast forward a couple years later and um here we are now part of a movement of post-traumatic growth.

PJ: Yeah.

Justin: You know, so I I got to say Struggle Well,

PJ: yeah. You're not the first person to recommend that one. Um is there a podcast that's your favorite?

Justin: Not really.

— No.

Justin: Yours.

PJ: Yeah. Thanks. That's that's what everyone says.

Um beautiful man. Hey, how can people get a hold of you?

Justin: Um, that's a good question.

I don't know.

PJ: You don't know? Yeah. Do you want people getting a hold of you?

Justin: If they want, yeah, they can uh reach out to me on email. Email's fine. Uh, phone number.

PJ: You're cool with dropping that stuff in the in and Okay. All right. I'll put all that stuff in the show notes and everything.

Um, hey man, it's it's been an absolute pleasure. I do appreciate you being honest and and willing to share your story.

You know the drill, friends. Please subscribe, like, share it if you think that someone that you know could really benefit from this information. I think uh Justin hears a wealth of that and and I think we got a beautiful glimpse of that and I and I appreciate it. Um I think the the the idea here is we really want to get across that like you can make it happen. You know, you may be going through a tough time transitioning out of the military, but it's not over.

And and I think that you you illustrate that beautifully. What do we what do we say when uh when when I was at the coffee shop? you know, labels, right?

In the military, you hear this often, right? Like, uh, you [expletive] one goat, you're a goat [expletive] right? But, but I don't think that's true. I don't think that's true. I think that sometimes we make mistakes and I think you made some mistakes and I think you overcame those mistakes and uh, and you broke through those things and and I want, if there's anything that anyone takes away from that, I think that that's a a beautiful tale that you you don't have to continue being that person that you feel like you are. Um, if you have any other comments or anyone think you should be on the show, please drop it below. Any suggestions, feedback would be greatly appreciated.