Navy Vet to City Council VP: Mental Health and Identity After Service

Speaker labels and mis-heard names are corrected by hand; the words are as spoken, filler and all.

PJ: Hey, welcome to the Mastering the Military Transition Series of the Prize Podcast. My name is PJ and I'll be your host. The purpose of this podcast is to share the story of those who have successfully transitioned out of the military so that you can see some of the tools and tricks necessary to have a successful transition of your own. That way, you don't have to stumble across some of the same things that I know that myself and my team at Prize had to struggle with ourselves.

At Prize, we believe in a world where all enjoy the freedom to grow. And that's why we're developing the Prize app. If you want to find out more, click on the prize.vet link in the show notes below. We hope that you enjoyed today's episode. Please like, subscribe, and if you have any feedback for us, please drop it in the comments. Hey fam, welcome to another episode of the Prize Podcast. We have Rachel Leon with us today. Yep. Thank you for coming out. I really appreciate that.

So Rachel is a Navy veteran. um right now she serves as the VP for the Bethlehem City Council and she um was a real estate investor while in the military and we'll talk a little bit about that and then also she's the the community director at Venture X here in Bethlehem. So welcome. Thank you for stopping by.

Rachel: Thanks for having me.

PJ: Um do you mind giving us a little rundown of your service? You know, how long were you in? What was your MOS and and that sort of thing?

Rachel: So I got in in 2004, September of 2004, and I got out March of 2013. Um I was an operation specialist uh in the Navy. So a whole job description is gather, process, evaluate and disseminate information, which is an amazing life skill to have in general. Um but my specialties were tactical data links like Link 16. So yeah, and I was an air intercept controller.

PJ: Oh, cool. Cool. And how long were you in?

Rachel: I was in for I think that nine years just shy of 10.

PJ: Okay. So you got in like two 2013?

Rachel: Uh 2004 to 2013.

PJ: Okay. Nice. Nice. Okay. And since then, do you mind like walking us through a little bit of your journey? Like what did you go through like from getting out? How did you get here today? How did Rachel become who she is today?

Rachel: Um I think it it starts, oddly enough, with the fact that I didn't transition out very well. You know, most people they do one tour and they're out or they do like the full 20. Um I got pregnant on shore duty. Um my son was or my husband was also in the is also in the military and Navy as well. He was in the Navy as well and then he transitioned out of the Navy and then transitioned into the Air Force.

PJ: Oh, interesting.

Rachel: And Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was during all those force cutting measures like the perform to serve and all that stuff where not the perform to serve section but where they were just cutting people regardless of their evals and stuff like that which was not a good time. um they lost a lot of good people, but he transitioned out during that time and into the Air Force. Um and we were looking at the next couple years ahead of us, what it would look like for our family in separate branches.

Um deployments and a very young son who would either be raised by me or by my parents. And I thought about my career, what was ahead of me, and if I could give it the same amount of dedication that I gave it when I didn't have my son. M um so I made the very tough decision like 3 weeks before my enlistment date.

PJ: Oh wow.

Rachel: To to jump out there. I think I went through TAPS like the transition assistance program like and then I transitioned out like the next day. It was very it was not a planned transition out and I know that that's helpful for a lot of people. Um so we crash landed out of the military. Uh after that I tried to kind of get my footing down in Virginia. um tried to get some contracting positions and I was hired by Hewlett-Packard um to kind of lead their center for military excellence, but those were those are contracts that you you're not always sure if they're going to stick around for a long time.

PJ: Yeah, sure.

Rachel: That one didn't it didn't stick around for a long time. Um and by the end of that, I just felt really done. I felt like I had given as much as I could and I didn't want to continue serving in that capacity. like I didn't want to use that kind of skill set going forward. Um but luckily enough, my husband was going through training at the time and we got orders to Hawaii, so we got to hang out in Pearl Harbor.

PJ: Oh, cool. Yeah, it sounds terrible.

Rachel: I know. Woe is me. Um but while I was while I was down there, I I can't sit you can't sit still for very long. You're not going to just sit on the beach for 4 years. it sounds amazing until you're week two into it and you're used to being productive and and you're like this is actually how I should still do this. Um so I tried to find ways to get involved while still prioritizing the fact that I had given up my career for my son which I it's a decision I I don't regret.

Um it was a difficult decision. Um I did not handle it well but it was the it was the right decision. Um, and the way that I found to get involved was there is a nonprofit organization down there called the Airman's Attic. And it's like uh like a Goodwill but for junior enlisted personnel. So, it's a completely free store. You go in, you get the clothes that you need, house supplies that you need. And I was like, I I can do this. You know, I was kind of twitchy.

Didn't like talking to people. Didn't like being around people, but I can stock the hell out of some shelves, you know. Um, so I started doing that. Um, and then I ended up taking over the the Airman's Attic, uh, modernizing it, revamping the store. Um, and it was just good, productive service where I still felt like I was giving back to young military families. Um, my son was with me all the time, so I got to teach him service very early on.

PJ: Oh, cool.

Rachel: And then we got to transition back because my husband was done. Um he was a tactical air controller for the Air Force which is a very physically demanding job. He got me like medically separated. So you know we had another blank slate in front of us like what are we going to do next? Um and I just I wanted to come back home. I have an amazing family. Um and I love my city. So I just wanted to come back home. And I came back home and thought what is the next phase of life look like? uh went back to school for a little bit, got involved in like the political science, global studies track, realized that oh this you can study about how to create change, how to make policy changes or you could just go do it. So I said screw it, I'm just I'm just going to go do it and I ran for office and here we are.

PJ: And here we are. Wow. Um, so you actually have some really unique perspective sounds like because you not only have the perspective of being in the military and transitioning out and having to make, you know, navigate that of yourself, but also having to do it as a spouse of someone in the military. And I think actually you probably have a lot to offer here in this conversation for both sides of that. So I want to drill into that just a little bit. You know, when when you're going through the transition, we have this and and I can speak from myself and and from other people that I've I've talked to, but we tend to have this thing in our mind that is the most important thing as we are getting out. What was it for you?

Rachel: Most important thing at the time, you know how people have like plan A, plan B, plan C. My plan A was join the military, serve as long as I could until they tell you you can't serve no more. Um, I had no plan B or C. That was it. That's all I wanted. I wanted career military for as long as possible. Um, I wasn't interested in having kids at the time. Um, I wanted to be uh a pilot. Um, and when when I had my son and this we decided that this wasn't the path anymore, the biggest thing for me getting out was to make sure that that decision that I made to sacrifice the real only dream that I had was worth it.

So, every moment after the military, I needed to make as worth it as as I could because I was giving up the only thing that I actually really wanted. And I and I know that that's some people when they get out of the military like screw this. I never wanted to do this again. Um that that wasn't the case for me. I very badly wanted to stay in. I wanted um but when when you're when you're married, when you have a family, it's not just your desires, you know.

So the biggest thing for me, my biggest focus was not career driven. It was not even family driven. It was a very real kind of self-p protection me mechanism of how can I make this difficult decision that I made as worth it as possible for me.

PJ: Yeah. Oh, interesting. And that so that was the focus at the time. Yeah. Okay. At the time. Wow. So looking back, you know, reflecting upon that, would you say that so some something that I think that I've noticed and and some of the other guests that we've talked to as well is, you know, there's there's a focus usually at the time and it's like the primary thing and and generally it's like a job, right? Um or some sort of security. How do I build in that foundation upon getting out so I can take care of my family or whatever it may be?

And then reflecting back on that, it's usually like, "Oh, well, yeah, that was silly because there's there's something else, you know, that that really was more important." Do you think that that changed for you at all?

Rachel: Absolutely. It was a ridiculous focus to have. It was the it was the worst focus cuz it's it sounds great. You don't make every day as amazing as it can be because you made this sacrifice. Um, but that's just not life. Like the trajectory of life is never a solid line, like a diagonal line up. Everything's going great. It's going to go up and down and up and down. And because I was so hyperfocused on making sure that every minute outside of my service counted, because I made my sacrifice, any time that I hit a bump in the road, like the the loss of that contract with Hewlett-Packard, um the transition down to Hawaii because while I adored Hawaii, I wanted to stay closer to family.

Um the transition back home and not being not already having like 10 jobs lined up. Um, every one of those dips down felt like rock bottom as opposed to what it was, which is just it's a hiccup. It's something that you have to transition through. It's not that big of a deal. You have the entire skill set necessary to navigate that. But I set this unrealistic goal of like every day has to be absolutely worth it. And what what looked like worth it to me was total success. not showing up for my my family, for myself, for my community.

It looked like what I wanted success to look like, which was mainly mainly financial. Um mainly an external like view of what success is. People should know that I made the right decision. It was a very I don't want to say weak but looking back it felt like a very weak focus even though at the time it felt very strong.

PJ: Okay. And how did you navigate that like at the time?

Rachel: Uh the VA really. Okay. Honestly, like there I I think if you try and hyperfocus and and suppressed too much and push everything down and I think we all go through our own little traumas and dramas in the military, but I hyperfocused and I pushed everything down. I didn't want to address anything. Didn't want to see anything. Um to the point where my my physical health took an intense dive. Um and you know, my family dragged me into the VA kicking and screaming the whole way.

Um, and they put me through a whole battery of of testing and my doctor sat me down and was like, "Listen, you're very healthy and all of these external indicators of an unhealthy situation are stemming from a much deeper problem and you need to go talk to someone." And so they basically just like walked me down the hall of the VA in Allentown and told me to talk to I call it my psych intake. And I know it's very dismissive, but I had suppressed a lot of things that I should have dealt with.

Sure. Because I was so focused on this tour, this tour, the transition out, this success, this success that I didn't take any time to process any of the real things that happened. Um, so I forgot how we got on this question, but it really is like I I was very unhealthy mentally, which made me very physically unhealthy. Sure. And I had to I had to address that. I I really had to address that cuz, you know, the 10ear projections were not looking so great for me mentally or physically.

PJ: Mhm. Yeah. I think that's often overlooked actually, you know. Um, and I know I know it's starting to change, you know, with with the idea that there's some sort of a a stigma around mental health. Um, and and our last guest, we were actually talking about this too, where there's this perceived weakness, especially in this hard charging military community, or at least there was again when I was in you, you know, if you're if you're not right up here, there's something wrong with that person. And I think that does a lot of disservice to a lot of us because we don't realize how connected really truly our mind and body are. And if you can't take care of your mind, you may be pushing through on on a physical level, but that doesn't mean it's sustainable.

Rachel: Not at all. No, not at all.

PJ: Right. So when when you were having these hiccups um and you went and saw the VA um and what can you like kind of walk me through that like what was your journey with the VA? cuz I know that that varies a lot too from person to person, right?

Rachel: It does. And like uh my my stubbornness and my defensiveness was extremely present throughout the entirety of my journey. So my amazing doctor walks me down and says, "Talk to psych." Uh the intake officer asked me like two questions and I was done. I splashed water on my face. I was like, "I'll be back." like you know and it's it's because I I think we just talked about this a little bit ago probably prior to this but you know the external agreeableness the um the professionalism it hides a whole lot of internal things that might not be veteran specific but we it is exacerbated because of the situations that we go through.

Um, so asked me two questions and I was like, "No, not talking to you. You know, we're not we're not doing this. I have I have a son to raise. You can't break me down." And then I have to go home and teach my son how to be a man in this world. That's he needs a strong mother, not someone in the corner crying. And that's not what you're going to put me through. Um, so I pulled out and then they called me like 6 months later.

They assigned me a trauma therapist. Um, I refused to go until they reassigned me a different trauma therapist like two other times. Uh, the person that they assigned me that time I did the intake with her cuz I would meet with them and I'd be like, "No." But this there was some there was something about her. Yeah. You know, she didn't she didn't quantify her ability to treat me by her husband's service or by her parents' service or or anything like that. She was just like, "Hey, I'm here to help if if you want.

This is my really cold cat." It was during the the lockdowns and everything, so it was virtual. Um, and she was she was really great. She was really she didn't push me. She didn't make me do all the questionnaires right away. And she was very patient. That poor woman. I made her sit through 45 minutes of my horrible standup comedy before I would give her 5 minutes to me. And in those 5minute windows, there was a lot of of trust built up. And now, um, I see her quite regularly.

We see each other every every 2 weeks. Um, and it's it's important because while I'm trying to heal from things that previously happened, life is still going on, right? And now that I'm dealing with the things, there is just a healing is is vulnerable. Like there it just is, whether it's physical or mental healing. Um, so having that support system to deal with current day reality while I'm trying to process past trauma is has been very crucial.

PJ: Yeah. Well, you touched on something too that that I think that a lot of us believe in the time, but in my mind is a little bit of an oxymoron, and that's the idea that like I need to raise someone to be strong, so I need to be strong. But your idea of strong was not strong. Right. Um, and and I think you're very right. Right? Like we do want to be the best that we can be for those that we love regardless of who they are. However, a lot of that takes being vulnerable, doesn't it?

Rachel: It really does because you think that you're you're shielding them from it. Like you're shielding them. We're not hiding anything. You're not like nobody calls me out better than my son. We'll be in a in a restaurant and I'll just get twitchy or like a like a grocery store, anywhere where there's like a lot of people and I'll just start getting twitchy and my my my boy like he'll come next to me and he'll be like, "Hey, how you doing?" You're looking a little anxious, Mom.

And wow. And I'll be like, "I am." He's like, "Let's go outside." And he's just he's a beautiful. And yeah, I had to process this with with my therapist. I'm like, "Oh my god, I think I just trauma dump on my son." And he's She's like, "No, he's just he's a he watches you." It's like, she's like, "You're not leaning on him. He sees his mother who he knows and he sees that something is different and he and he asks you if you want to leave." And I I want to say that I I hope that that's a result of the amount of conversations that I've had with my son and my husband has had with my son about, you know, like boundaries and and being able to express what's going on.

And if you need space, take the space. Don't let anybody tell you you can't have space. Um because that's not that's not real. Like no, it's it's your life. If if you can't be in that specific situation, take yourself out of it. And I invested that in my son. I instilled that in my son while never instilling that in me. He has learned it so well that he's like you need space. You need to slow down. You need to calm down. And the the strength I mean my son is strong.

He's just built. But this the strength that he has in his emotional intelligence, it it's that has become one of the biggest points of pride in in my life that if nothing else, my son knows how to make boundaries and hold those boundaries and be aware of what he's feeling and say, "No, I'm not engaging with this right now cuz this is where I'm at."

PJ: Yeah. Yeah. That's really cool.

Rachel: Yeah, it is really cool.

PJ: I got a question.

Rachel: Uh-huh.

PJ: Do you think that he would have gotten that had you not gone to the VA and gone to see someone um and dug into those things that maybe you were avoiding yourself?

Rachel: I don't think so. I don't I don't No, I don't think so. cuz I I remember the person I was before him and like before before going to to see um to seek help and I was just I was such a liar to myself. My how about that was um and if that's your baseline, if you can't be honest with yourself, you can't really be honest with anybody else. It's it's it's just if you're comfortable breaking your trust with yourself, who you should respect more than anybody else, it's just that much easier to break trust with other people.

So, no, I don't think I don't think I could have been as effective hopefully of a mother as I am if it had have been for for getting help first.

PJ: Yeah. I So, I asked that question because that I think is a a common misconception and I don't just mean that within the military. I mean that within within a lot of people, right? There's actually a wonderful book. I I'll take this tangent for a second. There's a wonderful book called The Speed of Trust. It's it's written by the son of um the guy wrote the the seven hab seven highly the seven habits of highly effective people, right? Stephen Covey, right? Um Stephen M.R. Covey, which is his son, wrote The Speed of Trust.

And he he touches on exactly this. And it can be so insidious, right? little things like I set my alarm in the morning and I wake up when it goes off and I'm like I'll just sleep in more. We're actually not keeping a contract with ourel when we do that. And that sort of mindset, it shows up in other areas of our life like, oh, it's okay if I do that. It's okay if I do this. And it it's like we slime on some things, right? And and I think it's to this point, right? We have to be able to trust ourselves before we can trust anyone else.

Rachel: That is a an icky and uncomfortable reality because there are things that you kind of areas that you compromise uh when you're in in the thick of it. And by the thick of it, I mean your own your own mess um that are very hard to address when you're climbing out of it. Like all of those small compromises you make um in in the name of keeping yourself healthy. So like I was never a heavy drinker. I wasn't a smoker. I didn't go down that route, you know, but there's there's different addictions that that people fight with that have nothing to do with all, you know, and the the compromises that you make in the name of just getting by.

Um, is also a point of healing afterward. You have to look back and and make like just accept who you were at that moment because you can't go back. You can't change it, right? You can't like and and that person doesn't deserve your your judgment. Like that's that's who you were when everything was really bad and that but that's not who you have to stay being. Just because you historically hit snooze. Just because you don't take care of yourself, that doesn't mean that's that's the state.

That's not who you who you are. That's a trauma situation. That's not your default setting. Um, but it is hard to look back at all those those contracts and it's it's twice as hard to rebuild trust in yourself because you're the one who let you down.

PJ: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I like the saying of there's a reason why grace and growth both start with GR because you can't have one without the other.

Rachel: It's incredible. You really can't, right? You No, you really you really can't. Grace is my parents are pastors. Um, but like it's one of the things that they told me all the time is like grace is sufficient. Sometimes grace is sufficient. And in in the moments that you can't have growth, in the moments that you can't have that you can't excel in the moments that all you can do is get out of bed or not even get out of bed. Like that's you need grace there.

You need grace to get through it. And after you heal, you need grace for the grieving that you're going to do for the the 10 years that you you stayed in a really deep depression. And they're not you're not going to get that back. But it's okay cuz you survived it. You and like I wish people that that really went through these very deep depressive episodes understood that like you survived it. Like it was enough to stay on this side of the curtain. You you survived it and that that is strength.

Like there's so many times when people wake up and it's not and it's never like oh I want to die. It's like I could I could have not woken up today. Sure. You know I could sleep.

PJ: Ooh, that's such a that's such a like a sneaky statement, too.

Rachel: Yeah. And it's and it's okay even when you're separated from that to still have that like I could have slept for a month today. You can't sleep for a month. It's it's a coma or you're dead, you know? And like having that thought, I could have not woken up today and be like, ooh, ooh, what does that actually mean? And checking in with yourself and being like, what does that actually mean? like what is the root of this thought? Am I on a path that is is bringing back things that I had dealt with and buried because it it does it comes it resurfaces every now and again and you have to sit there and you have to beat it back and say no I I I do want to wake up today.

Maybe I'm overworked. Maybe I'm making decisions that aren't things that that bring me peace and joy or any of the other things that I'm looking for. Um but yeah, you have to you have to check in.

PJ: Yeah. Yeah. So, thank you for that. That was no it's it may on the surface may seem like a bit of a tangent but actually like what you just described there I think that a lot of us go through and I and I think is very common for people also getting out where we've been so ingrained in a certain mindset and a certain idea of who we are that we don't often take the step back to then assess what maybe that could be on a much deeper level and then swallow the proverbial porcupine. right?

Because we all have that that we have to deal with and I know personally like I had to swallow some proverbial porcupines for sure. So, thank you for sharing that.

Rachel: It's it's you know what's what's very difficult with the transition out because it's in keeping with the the line that we're talking about is like when you're in, you kind of know your why. Like yeah, especially I wasn't just in, I was in in, you know, I wasn't one of those, you know, hesitantly in. I I took it seriously. I loved every minute of it. I I would study for my tests and like I was in and I believed I was important to defend democracy. I was supporting defend democracy.

Um and I built up that drive. I built it up and built it up and built it up and then I got out and had all this drive and all this and I don't know the driving force. I want to say it's my family. I want to say it's because those are all the things that you're supposed to say. But if my driving force is making me run a million miles an hour and cause like making it so that I don't spend as much time with my son than is my family my driving force.

The lack of understanding why we're making the decisions we're making and still operating in the drive that we kind of instinctually have is very when you talk about checking in on yourself. What is what's driving you? Like and I haven't figured that one out yet. I don't know what's driving me. Um, I can think of 10 things that matter to me, but are those the driving force? And if you don't know your driving force, nothing is ever going to be enough ever. I My mom sat me down and rattled off all my accomplishments on one of the days that I was having a really rough day.

And I was like, "So, so right, so she's she's like, "When is it going to be enough?" And I was like, "It's never going to be enough." Right? And I was like, "Oh crap. It's it's never going to be enough." That's right. And how do you fight through the mental health? Like if it's never going to be enough, when are you ever going to find peace? When are when are you ever going to be able to even if it's just for a second, if it's nothing's ever enough?

PJ: Well, this brings up an interesting point, too, of we are often very driven, and I think this is very common in the military as well, right? Like we are often very driven. We want to go do everything. Um, and you know, we're going to take that hill, right? regardless of what happens, the the ability to dig in and find the why. It kind of goes back to the statement of, you know, like it's not about the goal, it's about who you become in the process. I think that that is something that we they build into the military because you are issued a purpose, right?

You're issued an identity. We all know who it is, right? Like it's it's there's no question, right? It's there. When we get out, they're like, "Figure it out." Mhm. Right. That is something that I think most people don't know even regardless of whether you're in military or not, like they don't know what was driving them, but they didn't have that strong sense of identity and purpose to begin with. Yeah. Some people do, right? But like in the military, we all have that. They issue like we said we issue that right when you get out they don't they don't do anything about that.

So they it's something that's in a way ripped away from you right you're you're divorced of that y so now you have to get out and you have to realign to something and that is a challenge.

Rachel: It is. It is because what's more, especially if you really threw yourself into it and I mean I I'm a Hispanic female and like not that I think these things are ethnicity driven, but like God family and country was instilled in me from a very young age. God, family, country, God, family, country. And like when you get out and you try and realign along that what job I am I going to get in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania that has to deal with weapon systems, right? like there's there's there's no real align like and it's very difficult to see the skill set outside of the job.

It is very difficult to to see yourself as something different when you're you're struggling to kind of get by. Um like for me it was very much a mental health struggle. Um, and you know your capacity and you can't you can't like really explain that to people like what you did. Um, and it's funny my father's a veteran. He's uh he served in um in Vietnam and we used to watch like little war movies growing up. Um, he never let me watch Rambo. Never.

PJ: Oh, interesting.

Rachel: Rambo was his movie. It was his time. So he never let me watch Rambo. But there was one day when I was in my mom's and my mom and dad's room just screaming about what I used to do and who I used to be and how people see me now, you know, and and the the same people who were all, "Oh, thank you for your service 5 minutes ago will completely not give a flying fig about you right now." You know, and and I went along that path like people don't know what I did over there.

People don't know the like they don't know my capacities. They don't know my capabilities. They don't know my limitations. They don't know they don't know the things that that I accomplished that I'm genuinely deeply proud of and I come back here and they want to question whether or not I could what? Stock a shelf. You want to question whether or not I I can train someone like do you have any idea what I what I did? And my father played this one scene of Rambo where he

PJ: Oh, that was it. He let you in.

Rachel: He let me in. And it was the scene where he was like, I was when I was over there, I was somebody and now I can't get a job parking cars. And that that disconnect, that kind of God, man, that is rough. That is really really rough when especially when you're so raw coming out where you're like you really can't express what you did because you're still processing everything that you did. And it's not everybody's story. Some people come out, they hit the ground running. Sure.

But like I had for for me specifically, if I had maybe laid the groundwork, I could have hit the ground running. But I I didn't. I I was like, I'm out. Now what? Mhm. Now what turned real spicy real quick?

PJ: Okay. So I mean this is a good segue. What would you say then was, you know, looking back now? We talked about like at the time what was the biggest challenge reflecting now like looking back on it what was actually the biggest challenge

Rachel: so much of of my selfworth was caught up in in the uniform. Yeah. like okay uh I couldn't see myself and the skills that I had acquired outside of the the uniform, you know, and that that was very very difficult not being able to explain to people what I did. My mom would always tell me I know I talk about my parents a lot. My family is literally my world.

PJ: Yeah, that's great.

Rachel: Um, every time I would try and explain it to my mom while you're sitting down trying to write your resume, she's like, "You're talking a different language. We I don't understand what you're saying." And it's like when I'm talking about like tactile difficult things coming out, it was struggling to find my identity or at least who I was outside of the uniform. not being able to express to people what I did and why what I did has value outside of, you know, Operation Enduring Freedom. Like there's there's there's value in it.

Um the medical system was hard to navigate. What what do you mean that I have to go ask people these like, you know, I'm I have to go stand in line for this and I'm used to that in the in the military. But then you're going to I have to pay how much money for that? Oh my god. Are you kidding me? Like that alone I was just like let me put this uniform back on. Yeah. Um like I know there's the these very tactile things that were those were the actual the actual hard parts.

The overcoming the mental health was the baseline. If I had solid mental health coming out I would this is what I would say those those are the harder parts like figuring out who you are after and being able to really articulate what you did to set yourself up for success coming out.

PJ: Yeah. Yeah. And how did you overcome that? Was it was it the VA therapist or was it something else?

Rachel: Uh, it was a a little bit of of kind of the VA therapist and her kind of saying it's not about who you were, it's about who you want to become going forward. You know, it's like and a little bit of me reminding myself of of who the hell I freaking was. Like sometimes when you're in the the thick of it, you forget who you were and it's just like, "No, man. I I did the thing. Like I I did a good job while I was in I I I at a young age like I I was I was very sheltered growing up and I just jumped into the big bad world.

And not only did I survive, I thrived while I was in. I I set myself up for success financially at least coming out. Um even though I was thinking I was going to get out way later than I did, I took early steps to make sure that that was a thing. Um and I'm very proud of the service that I had. I'm proud of the things that I had to overcome during that service, you know, and I'm proud of the fact that as a woman, I don't have to quantify my happiness with myself by saying, "But at least my husband, but at least myself." Because specifically like as as a as a female veteran, a lot of times, oh, you left for your family, that's a great thing.

It's like, oh, you know, like that's it also hurt. You don't you don't understand, right? you might not be able to get why that doesn't sit well. I I can't say I did it for my son because then if I struggle with like if I struggle with that then I I don't want to then blame my son. I don't want to then blame my husband. Those those were obviously the catalyst to why I got out. Like if I didn't have a son I'd still be in.

Um but he is not the reason. My commitment to being the mother that I wanted to be is the reason. my commitment to being the wife that I wanted to be is the reason, you know, like and making that centered around God, that sounds selfish, but making it centered around you so that you're not projecting blame or anger on anyone else is very very important. At least for me, it was very important. So ownership, ownership, extreme ownership, like own the decisions that you make, own the failures that you have.

And I have plenty, you know, when people are like, "Oh, I don't want to do anything because of the skeletons in my closet." Man, I have a whole freaking catacombs of my And it is it is it is what it is. I made really stupid decisions for a very long time and we're growing. We're we're learning. Absolutely. We're surviving every day, right?

PJ: Yeah. Yeah. Uh there's there's so many things I want to touch on. Um I think we're going to have to have you come on again. Um cuz we're unfortunately coming coming short on time right now. But I wanted to I wanted to before we hop um I wanted to get your sense of like if you were going to tell like give someone one piece of advice as they're getting out in their own transition whether it's for them or for their family or whatever it may be like what would that be

Rachel: your transition out make sure it's what you want to do like make sure deep down inside that it's what you want to do if you're getting out early you know if If you're at 20 years, you're at 20 years. But if you're getting out early, make sure that it's it's what you want to do so that you don't spend the next 10 years regretting doing it. So you don't calculate, well, if I go in right now, do I still have my rank where like all those kind of little things.

And I'm saying that as someone who kind of knew that I made the right decision and still did it anyway. I still was like, well, I still fit my uniforms. They'll still take my rank. I hit the six year mark. They won't take my rank anymore. Am I still old enough to get back in? Um, if you're done, you're done. Don't Don't do that to yourself. Don't Don't do that back and forth. Like, that's it. It's It was a chapter of your life. It's over. You know, take the lessons, move on.

But don't do that thing that we do like the heyday of high school. Oh, I was a varsity. Yeah. The falling star. Yeah. You're reliving your varsity soccer, dude. It's You're 45. haven't played soft in short years, knock it off. You know, like there's there's a way to take pride in it with without thinking that your best years are behind you. They're best years are always in front of you. Your best years are all the years that you're alive. Um so kind of living one foot in and one foot out is you're not fully present in anyone and you're not there anymore.

You're here like carry it with you, but you're you're here now. Yeah. And move forward like that because if not, you're like doing disservice to your your own service by carrying it along with you. Like it's it's this look at how great I was, you know? It's like no, you're you're still you're still amazing, dude. Like you did it. You survived. You got through it regardless of how your service was, whether it was very very very difficult, whether you had to do things or or whether you never had to see a thing. you you did an honorable thing and you did it well, you know, like now on to the next honorable thing that you're going to do. Yes. Let that carry. You're an honorable person. Yeah. I think that's Yeah, I think that's where my head would go to.

PJ: Thank you. And real quick, what what would be Do you have a favorite book?

Rachel: Oh, jeez Louise. Ah, God. I could I could give you a favorite book in every category.

PJ: Um, what about in growth?

Rachel: About what?

PJ: In growth.

Rachel: In growth. For me, in growth, um I'm a huge Robert Greene fan. Huge. Okay. Yeah. And I I love The 48 Laws of Power. Wow. Okay. Yeah. I love like the 30 word like strategies of war. Um and it's mainly because I mean I really did grow up in a very um sheltered environment. Like it's literally it was attuned to putting like a little baby bunny into like the throws of war, you know, like and I didn't I Nice reference. It's true. I didn't know I didn't know how people operated with power or their power dynamics whether they doing it are doing it intentionally or not.

Um I wasn't aware of manipulations. I wasn't aware of of any of that. So every time something reared its ugly head, it was a devastating blow to me because I couldn't understand why people would be like that. Why would somebody, you know, intentionally hurt you? Why would somebody lie and manipulate in that way? Why would they why would they do that? And instead of learning growth lessons from there, I was just like, well, if that's how we're operating, I'll do it back, you know? Yeah. And it was just kind of like this aha moment of whether intentionally or unintentionally, this is how people interact in in these these power dynamics.

And I think I don't know why people dog that book so much because it really is just a a map of this is human nature. Just just learn it. Learn it not not to use it against people, right? That's the key. Learn it to protect yourself. Learn it to be there. So in growth 48 Laws of Power um huge fan of Marcus Aurelius Meditations. I everybody said these books to you.

PJ: No not at all actually.

Rachel: Really? Oh my god they're I read that one every night. There is a quote in that book where he says um to stand up straight and not be straightened. And my ne that's going to be my next tattoo right now because like to stand up straight and not be straightened. You can edit this out later, but like to handle your [expletive] before life says no, you're going to handle it. Yeah. Like yes, that is that is the most powerful sentence I've read recently and it's probably hitting me at the right moment cuz I've just like what?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. Like that is when it comes to growth to stand up straight and not be straightened is probably one of the most impactful statements I' I've heard because it really is like life can't like sucker punch me if my guard is always and I don't mean like my medical like my

PJ: No, it's just being prepared, right? Yeah. Just be prepared. I think discipline helps do that like for us too, right?

Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. You a traffic stop isn't horrible if your car is registered, you know? It's I know that sounds silly.

PJ: No, what a statement though.

Rachel: It it is those little some of the things that I struggled to concern the most was like car stuff, registration, like all this all these little things that just were not priority while I was in here. I just wasn't operating in that world. And the way that I was getting sucker punch after sucker punch, it's like you're getting sucker punch cuz you're a sucker. Put your guard up.

PJ: No, I'm going to I'm going to touch on one last thing. Um what you just described is a very akin to the idea of we create our own luck. Yes. Right. there there's I meet so many people that are like, "Oh, I'm unlucky." Or, "Oh, I have this going on and this." What decisions did we make or not make ahead of time that led us here? And I think this goes back to that honesty conversation that we talked about earlier. Yeah. Um, I'm going to leave it there just in in in an interest of time.

I appreciate you all stopping by. I appreciate you stopping by. If you would like to have Rachel on again, I know I would, please let us know in the comments. Otherwise, if you have any suggestions, feedback, questions that you would like me to ask or people that you would like to have on the show in the future, I appreciate you stopping by. Please hit the like and subscribe. I'll talk to you later. See you. sign.