Marine to Deloitte to Business Owner: Building a Career, Then Leaving It

Speaker labels and mis-heard names are corrected by hand; the words are as spoken, filler and all.

Preview clips

Terry: I'll never forget he said, "Terry, that needs to be the last time you referred to anyone as sir in this environment." Boy, the truth, the the real answer, I love it, but it was income. You know, for me to step into a sales role or a a role where you kind of just got to figure it out for yourself at that point in time. I wasn't ready for that. I certainly wasn't ready for that. And I knew that if you can put phasing into your thinking around your career, you will serve yourself extremely well. extremely well.

Conversation

PJ: Hey, welcome to the Mastering the Military Transition Series of the Prize Podcast. My name is PJ and I'll be your host. The purpose of this podcast is to share the story of those who have successfully transitioned out of the military so that you can see some of the tools and tricks necessary to have a successful transition of your own. That way, you don't have to stumble across some of the same things that I know that myself and my team at Prize had to struggle with ourselves.

At Prize, we believe in a world where all enjoy the freedom to grow. And that's why we're developing the Prize app. If you want to find out more, click on the Prize.vet link in the show notes below. We hope that you enjoyed today's episode. Please like, subscribe, and if you have any feedback for us, please drop it in the comments. Hey fam, welcome to our next episode of the Prize Podcast. Today we have with us Terry Wallace. He um right now is the owner of Venture X Bethlehem.

Um he was in the Marine Corps um already off or already enlisted in in the Marine Corps and then upon getting out he did a stint as a police officer. Um went and did Deloitte Consulting for a bit which is we'll have to talk about that. It's an interesting one. Um and then you were at um Pfizer and then WeWork and then now you um Venture X which is awesome. So hey, thank you for

Terry: thanks for having me.

PJ: Thanks. Um, so I mean to kick things off, the first thing that I would really just love to hear from you is like what was your journey like? How did you become the Terry that is sitting here in front of you today?

Terry: That's a scary thought. I um No, I'll even go back before my time in the Marine Corps. So um I grew up in a military family. Uh my father was in for many many years. Um he actually just retired at 82 and he still um subcontracted out to the Department of Defense. Um so he's yeah he he did a good 60 years in some way shape or form uh either directly or indirectly with the military. Um so anyway grew up in a military family. Um moved every other years every two or three years my whole life. You understand you know most your folks are understanding what we're doing. Um we lived all around the US. Uh we lived in New Zealand for a couple years.

PJ: Oh, cool.

Terry: Back to the US, then back to Australia. Then when we were in Australia, I did my high school years in Australia. So I share that one from the mil military angle. The other is that that nomadic dynamic that can kind of come through, you know, your life in the military. Uh which actually I think is partially why I'm I'm do I do what I'm doing now. Um so anyway, life in the military in my family that was kind of what you did. you went into the military.

I had every intention. Uh the Marine Corps really hit me when we were in Australia. So, we lived there. We lived right across the street from uh um oh, I guess he was a gunnery sergeant, but he was the gentleman who was in charge of security obviously in the Marines at the embassies.

PJ: Oh, okay.

Terry: So, I would see these fellas periodically when we'd go and visit my father, whatever it might be at work, cuz he worked he was at the embassy in Australia. Um, and I honest 13, 14 years old, I remember just thinking, "Wow, those guys are sharp. I want to be that. That's what I want to do." Um, so honestly, from 14 on, I was going to be an officer in the Marine Corps. Um, journey kept continuing. I enlisted first um and then I was going to go to, you know, move, you know, continue the progress and then just decided this wasn't one I wanted to do with the rest of my life.

I enjoyed it immensely. couldn't think of a negative word to say about the Marine Corps if you gave me a year other than its reason for existence, you know. Um but other than that, just as solid as an organization could could ever grace this earth and um so I did some did my time there, got out and I wanted to get into this strange weird civilian life. Um and I don't know that I wasn't ready for the full jump. So I thought to myself, what's something that I can kind of um ease this transition a little bit and I thought law enforcement that makes sense.

They wear uniforms, they have rules, they have, you know, sidearms, you know, whatever. This will be very similar. This will be very familiar. It wasn't. It was very, very different.

PJ: Interesting.

Terry: Very, very, very different. Um, you know, as I mentioned about the Marine Corps, you can't say a bad word about it. Uh, law enforcement's similar. I mean, some of the finest people I've ever met, some of the finest people I've ever worked with. Very difficult job. Very difficult job. And And I don't think anyone would debate that. Um, now this is in the '90s, you know, mid '90s. I can't even fathom doing that job nowadays. Yeah. Just brutal, brutal. Um, so I was a police officer.

I The first year I thought, "This is amazing. I love it. It was exciting. It was interesting." You know, all those type of things. And um truth be told, we did 12-hour swing shifts. 12 hours 7 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. I tell you, I didn't sleep a day or night the whole time I was in C. And I really mean that. I don't think I ever got a good day or night sleep. Um it was brutal. And I thought to myself, I don't know that I want to do this for the rest of my life.

Um so I went started going back to night school to get my MBA. And I had no clue what I was going to do with it, but I thought it can't be a bad thing. Yeah. And it's going to I'm going to make this work some some way, shape, or form. Even if I stayed as an as an officer, it'd be great to have. So, I spent I did a 2-year um accelerated degree program to get my MBA, but it took me four years. Um mainly because, you know, my studies were quite good.

Let me just But um but uh it was difficult. I didn't get time off. They I was paying for it out of pocket. you know, the police department didn't pay for it. Um, so honestly, I was taking using my vacation time. Um, because that that the that that swing shift is a real difficult thing to have any type of regularity about. It was 12-hour shifts, 2 days on, two off, three on, two off. It it was very difficult to to integrate life with this schedule. Sure.

Yeah. So, anyway, it took me four years. Uh and during that time I was talking to professors that I really I I was drawn to. Yeah. I was really impressed with them, their thoughts and the way they they conducted themselves and said I wanted business boot camp. I wanted to drink from a fire hose. I have always in my life for whatever reason uh I'm sure there's it's it served me well and sometimes and not so well other times felt like I was behind. I was trying catchup.

PJ: Oh, interesting.

Terry: You know, so during that time I thought boy I'm I'm I'm I'm behind. I want to I want to catch up. I want to catch catch up. Um, and the suggestion from a few of them was management consulting. So, that's where you're going to get thrown into the deep end. That's where you're going to do the long hours. You're going to do the travel. You're going to um, you know, you're really going to grind it out in, you know, in a war room, whether it's for an acquisition or you you don't understand what I'm getting at.

Um, so I sought out to be a management consultant. I have still at home I have printouts of 36 rejection letters. And I look back now and I I I kept them. I actually felt found some sort of pride in these rejection because I knew I was going to get it eventually. Um so I kept I kept almost all of them. I don't know that I kept all of them but I have I have a binder with them. Um I don't know where it is but I'll dig it up.

Um but like 36. Um I you know in retrospect I recognized they didn't know what to do with me. Uh Marine Corps police officer business strategy management consultant. like it it wasn't computing for folks. Fair enough. Um I went and interviewed at Deloitte which was one of the top firms that I really wanted to get into. Yeah, sure. Interviewed with a partner there and they had said and I don't know if they really meant it or they were just trying to be kind to me. They said, you know, look, everything's great.

Uh however, we've got this big project. What we really need right now is someone with formal training um uh presentation experience, which I didn't have. formal. Um I well debatable whether I had that but but anyway um I went back to uh a school called Rosemont College which actually affiliated with Villanova University. They taught a fiveweek accelerated uh um courses there. Mhm. Um I went I interviewed to teach a um negotiation and mediation skills course.

PJ: Oh, interesting.

Terry: got got the gig, taught it five weeks, set up a meeting, came back and met with that partner again and said, "I have formal uh training presentation experience."

PJ: Wow.

Terry: He hired me on the spot. I think they were in a bit of a bind to be honest with you. Uh matter of fact, I know they were um hired me on the spot. You know, he liked the the tenacity, the approach, the follow through, you know, fair enough. Resourcefulness. Um and the my first project was to um work with New York NYMEX, New York Mercantile Exchange. very for for anyone who's listening. New York Mercantile Exchange if you picture the days when there's a trading floors and there's the big circles of people and bye bye.

Exactly. They're writing on the tabs and they're they literally are throwing um throwing these cards in and they're screaming and yelling and the one who's the most aggressive and assertive and yells the loudest and gets in the right position gets the buys and gets the sells. So this project was to move from that dynamic to their first foray at an automated system. So this was 20 thou 19 1999 going into 2000. So um there was the whole you know the two Y2K what the hell's going to happen anyway.

So it was moving all these folks who had built their careers and and and you know got earned their livingings by yelling, screaming, writing on papers and doing their thing. Uh, and now it was time to get them to actually have these handheld devices where they were going to do all of this. Um, you know, through a computer system.

PJ: That's cool.

Terry: And they didn't want they wanted nothing to do with it. So, the point the reason I they hired me was they thought this guy with his background will be will he'll be more comfortable being put in front of these rooms full of very hostile, aggressive traitors to tell them that they have to now do their jobs differently. And it was mayhem. It was absolutely. So anyway, that was my first project. I was at Deloitte for for a number of years. Um then shifted over to Pfizer, which was one of our clients. Um I had a wonderful run at Pfizer, you know, 12-ish years at Pfizer. Um I ended up leading global HR operations at Pfizer.

PJ: Interesting.

Terry: Which was uh every role that I had at Pfizer didn't exist before I had it. Uh which is something else I want to mention because I think it's going to be important in this conversation. Um so as organizations were changing and evolving there were the jobs that they had you know and then what started forming and even more so to this day is these interim jobs these these connecting jobs these crossf functional jobs these project and program man yes and beyond but definitely at Pfizer and it was those roles that provided I would say the greatest opportunities to learn and with that was also the greatest opportunity to be frank to fail and and not work out.

Uh so there was kind of a riskreward dynamic there. Um I'll back up a little bit. When I was at Deloitte, I set um I put a stake in the ground as it comes off my tongue pretty quickly, but it took me a good year to think this one through. And I I wanted a northstar for my career. And what I came up with was head of HR for a global company with a noble purpose. M um which seems pretty easy, pretty straightforward, but probably took me a while.

It served me well cuz I chose opportunities when after opportunities, projects, whatever it might be based on that um with that kind of theme in mind, you know, direction in mind. I also turned down opportunities and projects and uh you know, roles because they weren't in that direction. Right. Right. So I looking back that served me very well. It served me very well. Um, with that said, while at Pfizer, I then was reached out, somebody reached out to me. I had honor reach out to me and proposed this opportunity um to lead global HR operations for this funny little startup called WeWork.

PJ: Oh yeah.

Terry: At the time um and you know the WeWork story is pretty infamous notorious, whatever you want to call it. Um uh I then interviewed over at WeWork, um sorry, yes, WeWork. I actually chose turn the job down and then because honestly it was such a it was just such a um different planet for what I had experienced in my life um coming from very very sophisticated um rigorous companies um and even organizations whether it's the Marine Corps or Deloitte or Pfizer right uh WeWork was was a rapid growth startup I mean if not the rapid growth startup.

Um, and it was very confusing to me and honestly I didn't know that how well I could do there. Then this gentleman took a very senior role in WeWork who reached back out to me and we went and had a nice long dinner there in the city and uh convinced me at the end of it like you know what I literally said there's going to be a movie about this company someday and there's there's more than one and I said I I can either sit there and say um you know yes I was part of that journey and I honestly I I didn't know is it going to be a horror film was it a comedy was is going to be a, you know, whatever.

Um, but it was going to be film worthy. Let's put it that way. No doubt in my mind. Um, or I could sit in that theater and watch it and think, how the hell did I miss that? How the hell did I miss that journey? Um, that was it. I I jumped on board. I was at WeWork for a little over, you know, three, three and a half years. And that was a wild ride to say the least. To say the least. Uh, I enjoyed it.

I learned a great deal because like I said going back to a Pfizer or Deloitte very sophisticated rigorous thoughtful organizations and for very obvious reasons and then you've got this company that the only thing that mattered was growth. Yeah. More storage, more project, more more building, more construction, more people. I mean the we hired Wow. We were hiring in waves and firing in tsunamis. It it was just it was a wild wild existence and a wild ride. At one point there, I finally said, "That's it.

Uh, it was time for me to move on." Um, and I had the only criteria I had was I want my own business and I'm done traveling. Absolutely done. Yeah. I had traveled almost one I had traveled probably I don't know well I had traveled extensively for about 20 years. Uh, we've lived here in the valley for most of those years. I left Sunday night and I came home very late Friday night almost every week. Yes. Uh yeah, it was rough. It was rough. It was a choice I made.

It is what it is. Um I've seen more of my family uh my daughter in the last four years than I saw in the previous 10 12. Wow. Um not proud of that. It's just just what it was. So that gave me the criteria my own business and I'm done traveling. I'm going to live here. I'm going to be here. I thought of a couple different options and then I just came back to wow what WeWork did was extraordinary. Um and I thought it doesn't need to be in Shanghai, São Paulo, London, wherever it might be.

How about where people live? You know, of course people live in those cities. Um right, but I also know here in the Lehigh Valley, the volume of people that would leave to Jersey, to Philly, to New York every day, this is pre-COVID, every day was extraordinary. I mean, there were companies built on it. It's even more now. It's just wild, right? And I thought, gez, I know this. Every single one that does it doesn't like that commute. There's nobody who enjoys that, you know, you hour, 2 hours, 3 hours plus on, you know, planes, trains, and automobiles.

And if they had the option to work closer to home, they would. Uh, again, this is pre-COVID. Um, so I set out to kill the commute. I was going to buy build the finest of Fifth Avenue here in the Lehigh Valley and give people the opportunity to instead of traveling, you know, two, three hours back and forth to a WeWork or a nice office or wherever in in in New York or Philly, they could they could walk, bike, or drive 5, 10, 15 minutes to it right here.

Um, then we and CO came along did a much better job of killing the commute than I could I did. How about that? It was rough. It was rough. I was set to open on March of 2020, which is when the world out.

PJ: I remember that.

Terry: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's it was it's been a journey to say the least.

PJ: That's incredible, man. Um there's so many so many tangents I want to take on that. And it's to me some of the things that really stand out too is that you you embraced the Marine Corps, you know, adage or I guess maxim I guess it's I don't know exists everywhere else too, but the Marines do really well is the jack of all trades, master of none. I mean, you went out and did all of the things. Yeah. Um, but I also want to point out something that you did or that you embodied that I think that a lot of you will benefit from hearing because this is something that I think that the military does a very good job at instilling in us is that resourcefulness.

M you pointed out something when you were applying for Deloitte and that you not only showed that you could do the job but that you would do the job and those are two very different things that I think that honestly a lot of people miss not even just you know veterans that aspect of will do the job is so important it's so important that like I I can't stress that enough um So, thank you for illustrating that.

Terry: Sure.

PJ: So, I want to rewind a little bit. If we go back to like the transition itself, and this is something I've been asking everyone because I think it's it's a very interesting thing to drill into is you likely had something at the time that you thought was super important. So, not in retrospect, but at that time, what was that?

Terry: Well, uh, help me understand that a little better. Something at the time of moving from the Marine Corps.

PJ: Yeah, exactly. change our words. What was in your mind is the the most important thing that you needed to take care of for that next transition. Yeah. For the transition process. I know that, you know, when we when we get out, you know, there's there's a million things that we can focus on, right? Um, however, there's usually like one thing that you're like, I I got to figure this out, you know, whether it's, you know, finding a job, whether it's, you know, you know what I'm saying? Like what was top of mind for you upon getting out? like what was your primary focus?

Terry: Yeah. So, boy, the truth, the the real answer, I love it, but it was income. Income. Yeah. I needed money. I needed to pay my bills. I needed to feed myself. Um the the main one was just income. Yeah. Um now, that's a tricky one because you don't want to just jump at anything. Yes. Right. So, it was trying to interplay that the urgency of needing something that made money, but having a pride that I wanted to be a respectful role. I wanted to be uh with an organization that would be recognized by people, you know, things like that.

Um I thought at that point the shift to law enforcement, it would be it's a respected role. It's it's a it was the other one I would say it certainly was an income. Um the other one was I recognized that at that time I needed a level level of um definitive role clarity of of role clarity. You know for me to step into a sales role or a a role where you kind of just got to figure it out for yourself at that point in time.

I wasn't ready for that. I certainly wasn't ready for that and I knew that um cool you know through my life and and obviously during that time period I needed I needed my marching orders. What is your job? Because if I didn't h I wasn't going to create them myself at that point in time. I will say this I did I believe I did an ex a very good job over time learning that whether that's a comfort zone or not you better figure out how to create your own marching orders.

Sure. And that's long-term midterm. that is short-term because big opportunities out there aren't they're not beaten paths. They're not clearly defined. Now, there's going to be some of that. You know, a partner in a law firm that makes tons of money and has this huge impact. Fair enough. You've got to go in as associate and you got to grind and you got to put your time and you know, there's a path there. Um, but outside of things like that, you've got to create it. You got to you got to see opportunity and fill those gaps.

Um, you've got to make sure that other that you're seeing an opportunity that's number one, it's it's actually an opportunity, right? Um, the other one is other people have to recognize it as such. It actually has a it needs to have a tangible value to it. Sure. Right. It's not enough to just say this feels like it would be good for an organization. You know, that I mean, you can try that all you want, but you're not you're not building a career on it. It's got to be this is going to bring in more revenue.

This is going to save more money. This is going to draw more clients. this is going to get us to a better place and then you have to prove it right. You've got to actually do it. Um so I think the important one honestly was a necessity for me. It was more or less and the the police officer piece um was um it it it came in front of me. I thought it would be a shift that I could make very quickly, very easily. I figured I could do a very good job.

I'd like to think I was a very good police officer. Um I I don't think I'm going on a big stretch for that one. I I think I I was um and it it there was a level of um ease in that transition, right? Um you know, it's I had I knew when I had to show up, I knew when it was done, I knew what I had to wear. I knew what my my role was, you know. Um so there were some similarities similar to that.

Yeah, certainly certainly certainly. Now, mind you, once you I'll never forget the first time after, you know, my trainings and and and you go through a um uh a period of time where you have a training officer with you all the time. I'll never forget the first time I rode out and it was just me solo. And I I honestly had this flash in my head. I'm thinking, "Holy I am driving out in a police car. I am armed. I am, you know, the whole deal." Yeah.

And the 911 call is coming to me and that's it. There, you know, I don't I can't call 911. I can't get I I can bring others along, you know. Um but but uh it's it's it's a striking moment. I would think almost every cop has had it at one point in time. Um so yeah, you've get you get that rigor and that clarity, but that role um there's there's many points in time where it it's a figure it out. It's a figure it out cuz you think, boy, am I we didn't go through this in the academy, you know, and that comes up all the time, you know what I mean? You can run through all kinds of scenarios, but I'll tell you what, there's there's too many variables out there to be prepared for everything.

PJ: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, the reason I asked that question is because I think that that's often a route that people or a mindset that people have upon getting out, right? And like, I need that security. I need that that financial piece. I need to to get that job. And now, don't get me wrong, like there's a necessity for that, right? There are ways to obviously go into the transition to ease that a little bit. However, and this is the next question I got for you.

What what was it that reflecting on it now that was actually the most important thing that for you to to have to struggle through or have to overcome upon getting out that maybe would have been nice for that, you know, young Terry Wallace to know?

Terry: I think the two things that come to mind, um the the first is you what I just alluded to a little bit ago, you've got to you've got to create the opportunity. You've got to formulate that opportunity. Now, I'm hesitating on that a little bit because you can't just know that. You've got to know a space well enough to know what's an opportunity and what's not. So, you've got to have some level Exactly. You got to have some level of experience or else you're just walking into a place and think and going based on what you think based on superficial understanding and you will be wrong all the time.

You know that's just being honest. You so you've got to get into something and really dig in and get some level of experience. So so your your perspective has uh it's not just validity but it's it's there's some proven aspect to it. So if I'm propo proposing a recommendation or a thought or a new project or a new role or a new approach to something um if it's rare it's going to be met with hell yeah that's a great idea let's do it right because if it was that easy it would have already been done right so you're going to then start running into some some push back what you back and forth and you've got to know something well enough to to make the case for yourself for that effort and yourself in that effort and that requires you got to be you got to know your space you've got to have you you need to have the the mental horsepower to think it through.

You need to be able to articulate the case. Um um those things those things take time. Those things take time. Um um so I I would say the focus if you're if you're really going to move on, you've got to be able you got to learn. You got to get enough expertise in a in a realm that you can actually start to see the opportunities and you can take advantage of the opportunities and you can you can you can bring people along with you in that case and that doesn't happen overnight.

No. Um no no. Um the other one I would say is that's a good way of saying this. Um, I started out by thinking, okay, I was going to be a Marine. That the Marine Corps was going to be I was going to be an officer and then I'm like, well, that's my life. Then I decided not to do that and I decided, okay, police officer, that it's what I'll be. And then, you know, maybe someday I'll be the chief of police. That's my life. Um, as I started moving through, I realized to to think of something that long term is rarely helpful.

PJ: Oh, yeah.

Terry: I think the best way to approach things is for the next x amount of years and I don't think it's on weeks or months uh is it a year is it two years I am going to fully commit to blank right and then I am going to reassess um I think that mentality would serve damn near everybody exceptionally well the only pair of person that's not going to serve well is someone who finds something that they want to do and it truly is what they want to do even once they figure out what's under the covers of that thing, you know.

So, I it's it's wonderful if you ever you got a friend or you know anybody who says I've always want I want to be a blank and that's what they ended up doing and they do it exceptionally well and they do it for their career. That's amazing. Well, let me tell you that was a lucky shot cuz because you just don't know everything. So, how would you possibly know? I think if you can time, if you can put phasing into your thinking around your career, you will serve yourself extremely well.

Extremely well. As a police officer, you know, again, I was thinking long term, but after I did it for a year, I'm like, you know what? This isn't it. And I remember thinking, David, I took a swing at something else and this isn't one I want to do. Um Um thinking, I'm missing I'm missing. Then I once I got to Deloitte, I learned an enormous amount at Deloitte. This came from Deloitte. The Deloitte is you're not missing. You're learning a great deal of things and you you've got to be constantly, you know, you're working on what you're working on, but boy, you got to lift your head up.

You're kind of going to look around every now and then and then get back in it. You know, what are you taking? These are the things that it's so cliche, but it's what are you getting out of it? What are you learning? What do you want to keep? What do you want to shed? What do you you know, how you want to think about these things? Um, I really experienced this learning in at at Deloitte. Deloitte was my first encounter with I hope this this sounds all right. Exceptionally bright people.

PJ: Yeah, I know what you mean.

Terry: And I I I remember being really struck and un I was uneasy my first year, maybe a little more at Deloitte. uneasy because the folks that you're around, I mean, these are these are top of the class, big-time schools, you know, whatever, whatever, and very driven people. And I just remember being in these meetings and around these exceptionally bright people who were intensely focused on their projects, their clients, their career. Um um and and to no detriment to anybody else to actually to the credit of everyone around them, you know, um exceptionally bright people and it it made me uneasy. I really did.

PJ: Imposter syndrome there is. Is that what you're saying?

Terry: Yeah. Yeah, I would say so. I would say so. Definitely that for that first year again I was a complete anomaly. I was older than everyone who was at my level. Um, I didn't go to the caliber of school that almost all of them went to. Yeah. I certainly didn't have the I had a different background. I had a very different background. And um, it took me a good year before I realized I had a very different background. Boy, did it also have a lot of value to it.

Yes. And that was a big shift for me. That was a big shift. And and and it was funny. I had I had a couple partners kind of try and pull that out of me and I wasn't seeing it but they were. Yeah. Uh which was very cool. Which was very cool. Um I remember early on a particular partner pulled me aside at a meeting and he said to me and I would convey this to anybody going through a transition. Um I was yes siring, no siring, yes ma'aming, no ma'aming everybody.

And I was only there a couple months when Spart remember it was one it was One World Financial Center uh literally staring right across the trade centers at the time. So this was 2000. Um I this big magnificent office this guy I say hey come in come in and have a seat. Very friendly like and I remember being unnerved cuz to me this guy was a colonel or a general you know what I mean? Um, so I kind of walk in all stiff and I sit down and I'm like, "Yes, sir." And and he goes, I'll never forget, he said, Terry, that needs to be the last time you referred to anyone as sir in this environment.

And I just didn't understand what he said. I didn't didn't make sense to me. He says, he said, "There are no sirs." So he says, "Everyone, you need to see everyone as your peer." Now certainly there's partners and there's this, there's whatever. You're going to be talking to clients and, you know, the CEO might come in or whatever it might be. Um, no, you you you are their intellectual equal. You are there to actually move their business forward, right? You are not there to serve them in the manner that I believe you're thinking of serving.

Um, you're not there to be wait to be told what to do. You're not there to take an order. Yeah. You know, you're there to bring your knowledge, your experience, and convey it and inject it into the conversation when you think it adds value. Don't ever do it when you don't think it adds value. Right. Don't be there just to ask questions. Ask questions. And he hit me hard and and it it just was that that's it with the different differential approach to life. Yeah. Um I remember talking to him saying cuz I really struggled with it.

It was I was I saw it as respect. I feel I'm giving people respect. I don't want to be seen as not being respectful. And he just put it right out there. He said it's it's not respect. Respect is bringing value to the table. It's not being it's not being inferior to someone and um or being perceived as being, you know, differential or inferior. Um respect is showing up, adding value, adding value every day. You do that. He said, "I don't want to hear you call on anyone, sir, ever again." And honestly, I stopped.

I just stopped. And that may sound odd to folks in the military, but I tell you what, I tell you what, it's something to to really strongly consider. Yeah. Sure.

PJ: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Man, you you had so many nuggets in that piece. One that I want to touch on a little bit is this idea of being able to pull learnings out of things. And actually, what's amazing about what you just brought up here is like literally I think every episode we've had at this point has touched on this in some way, shape, or form. whether even if it's like a really tough scenario, you know, like we're we're down I think TJ um Carson talked about when he was in his basement like after being broken up with with who he thought was the love of his life following getting out of out of the military, he was in a deep dark place, but looking back on it now, he's like, "Wow." I mean, there was actually a lot of great things that came out of that.

There were a lot of learnings. What's your mindset on that? like how do you now go into a situation almost almost I mean tell me if I'm wrong if you don't look at it this way but how do you go into a situation preparing to pull the learnings out of it as opposed to you know doing it in retrospect because I think and the reason I ask it that way is because when we do it in retrospect I mean obviously it serves us right however the loop of how quickly it can serve you going into that mindset I think is a lot more valuable. So, I'm curious to get your thoughts on that.

Terry: Yeah, I think the first thing that comes to my mind there is you you boy, you've got to know your idiosyncrasies and your weaknesses and whatever it might be. Um, and I you've got to manage yourself through them. Mine tended to be to speak, it's going to sound odd, but um I still speak very definitively. Everything's a yes. It's a no. It's a it's a strong perspective on the yeses and the nos and and things are right and things are wrong and back and forth. I don't mean just um you know from a from a character perspective but how you approach things.

Uh I would say I I know myself well enough to know that that does not serve me well. It inhibits my communication. So I learned early on was go light. Go light. It you know it isn't it isn't that's wrong. it isn't this is the only way to do things. There's multiple ways to get things done or whatever it might be, you know. Um, so I think you've it comes down to that know thyself, right? And and I tell you what, we could all know ourselves a lot better.

We could know all know ourselves a lot better. And um I think it's doing the very difficult work of knowing what you're good at and being honest with yourself, what you're not good at, being real honest with yourself there and and and making those adjustments. Um I was an ineffective communicator for a long time my career and it and it it my career moved well uh you know my career moved along nicely. Um um it could have moved along better. It could have been a lot less painful.

Um if I was much more a much more effective um communicator. Yeah. Um I thought effective meant uh decisive yes no clarity and and there are times when it is um if you're trying to change minds and bring people along and make adjustments or organizational transitions and things like that um just direct yeses and nos whatever it might be this is how it's going to be makes things slower. It absolutely makes things slower because again vast majority of organizations are are not like the Marine Corps or even law enforcement.

Um just because you say everyone go right doesn't mean everyone goes right. Oh yeah. And not even close. Um um and you can make the case well this organization would be much better if everyone did. I would make the case it would be much worse and probably wouldn't exist if everyone just followed orders because where's the innovation? Where's the innovation? Where's the change coming? How are you evolving? You know what how does it even work? you know, um you you're unplugging people. And again, there's a there's an organizations where that makes sense.

There's time and place where that makes sense. Um in if you're talking about growth of a of a business, whether it's revenue growth or people growth or or growing geography or what, you know, whatever.

PJ: Fair enough. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very good point.

Terry: Um you know, that that type of that type of communication is detrimental at best. Um um so I coming back to your question, I I would say you've got to really be honest with yourself, man. You got to be honest with yourself. Um the other one, and I'll take that down to a whole another level. I remember in my career, and I did it, and I've talked to a lot of folks, um uh Veterati, we talked that one time. So I I was with that or you know, supporting that organization for a while and interviewing a lot of people, um not interviewing, um meeting with a lot of people going through transitions and they were wonderful.

It was great organization. Um I remember hear people constantly well what is it you're looking for in a career what you know we go back and forth and you hear all the obvious answers. I want to learn you know I'm looking for you know to it was always this I want to I want to do something where I'm learning a lot. I'm see that's great but wait what's the figure? How much money do you want to make? You know what's important? Do you want to have a what's what's a title you might want?

Now, these things get uncomfortable because nobody wants to say, "You know what? I'll tell you what I want. I want x amount of dollars and I want to be called the vice president, you know, of of whatever function." Um, no one wants to say it because it doesn't sound good. But I tell you what, if it's important to you, then it is important to you. And it's not out of a place of narcissism or whatever it might be. There's a reason you want to make what you want to make.

And it could come down to I just want to have that security and peace of mind for me and my family. That's that's as noble as it comes. That's that's not an evil greedy thing. The title thing, that's another thing I people are never almost never rarely honest with themselves. Oh, that doesn't really matter. I'm not looking for the recognition. Some people aren't. Some people are. And if you are, don't pretend you're not because you're cutting you're you're cutting yourself out there. Um, if that is important, be honest about that.

At least be honest with yourself. You don't have to walk around going, I tell you what, in this annual or these quarterly meeting, they better call me out in front of everybody cuz that's important to me. But if it is, know that it is and have the right conversations to position that. Um, you've got to feed yourself, man. You got to feed yourself. What what what moves you. But that's knowing yourself anyway. I think that's knowing yourself is a big one. And and it's not an easy thing to do.

PJ: Well, I I think that you're touching on something also that's that's really really salient, man. Everyone I've ever met, period, is is not just knowing, I think, the outcome that you want, but even deeper than that, the why, right? Because, you know, the titles and the money and all that are great. However, you're going to get there and you're going to be like, "Well, now what?" Right? And in each one of those things, and I think this is important, right? is that those are just means to an end.

What's actually the end, right? Is it that you need that security? And and hey, we all need some sense of security. So, I'm not I'm not trying to like say that that's a bad thing per se. The the point I guess I'm trying to make here is we want to feel something with those whether it's important. We all we all want to feel important. Whether it is um the ability to give, whether it is the ability, you know, to just constantly grow. I mean, growth in itself is a really important thing.

But those are the ends, right? Like what are we trying to get after there? So, I think to me like when I hear that, what what comes up to mind is like that's that's a lot in like the goal process, right? And I think a lot of people don't do that, right? is like to your point here, you know, hey, we're getting out and I want to go do great things. Cool. What does that look like in concrete terms? Mhm. The more we can take something and make it almost visual.

Um, clarity, right? Clarity is power. Having that sort of clarity, now you know what to focus on to get where you want to go. And then when you can really attach that why to it, man, that's that driving force. That's that juice. you know, that's actually what's going to pull me to it because pushing is hard. When you're being pul pulled when you're being pulled when you're being pulled, like that's a whole another force.

Terry: Um, you're hitting on something very important and I think it's I think it's one of the most difficult things to do cuz I I would say almost anyone you talk to when you're talking about a why it ends up being some form of anybody I've ever talked to that I could think of, it's some form of I want to help other people. I want to make I want to I want to add value to others. Yeah. I want to and I think you have to be people have to be very worried about stopping there because congratulations so does everybody else maybe there's a few psychos somewhere who aren't interested in helping others but but but at the end of the day that's kind of what that's what you know that's humanity right we're all interested in adding value and contributing um to others um um I think it's very difficult to take that purpose and give it more definition.

That gets really difficult. How do you do that? In what, you know, in what manner through what vehicle are you doing that? How does that um I hate to say it, but how is it measured? Is it measured just on my gut feel? Do I feel good about myself today? Or do I or am I the type of person who wants to see, you know, this is a personality proclivity dynamic? For some people, it's I feel I feel that I'm I'm meeting I'm focusing on the right why.

Um I've got a good purpose and I'm adding value to folks. Um can't really measure it. Can't really see it. It's not something I touch, you know. Um and now that's fair enough. Um some people the reason I'm saying it I wouldn't compute to me like I in my brain I this business here um some of the things that I really key on you know we have 136 businesses that work out of here over 260 members like I I don't say that to you know for the audience to go wow that's impressive um that's me that's my internal measurement um and I know myself well enough to know that I need that I need that Because if I don't know those things, I I'm I'm a very Teutonic person, right?

I I want to I I want that direct line of sight. I want that clarity, you know, is this being what's successful for me is next month those numbers are higher, right? If those numbers are lower and there's other numbers I I focus on in different call them KPIs, call them whatever you want. Um I come back to this knowing yourself. To me, that's important. And so if I think about my why, my purpose, honestly, I started out with uh a number of things, but one of them was a number was one support 10,000 businesses in the Lehigh Valley. We're at 136. My brain goes, damn, I'm not I'm I I'm not there yet.

PJ: Yeah. But you're on track.

Terry: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

PJ: That's cool.

Terry: Um so I come back to the knowing theelves because I do think if most people will say, "What do you you know, what's your why? What's your purpose?" It's some form of I want to I want to elevate others. I want to raise support others. I want to help others. I want to You understand where I'm getting at? I' I'd suggest to people to dig even deeper on that one. Dig even deeper on that. Yeah. Yeah. And figure out how is that actually going to work in their world.

PJ: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, thank you. So, I'm curious. you know, someone someone's getting out and there's, you know, 200,000 people who get out of the military a year, right? Um, what would you tell them right now? Like what would be your single piece of advice to someone who's who's making the transition, whether it's for them or for their family, loved ones, whatever, you know, like what would be that one thing that you think they should focus on and and work through?

Terry: Yeah. Uh, my mind goes two different places, but I'll So, I'm going to give you two if you don't mind. One is one is just is is is um is that is a secure platform. You you need you need a roof over your head. You need to know where your meals are coming from. Like you've got to that's just a table stakes. You have to get that right. Exactly. You've got to get there. And if that's if that's not absolutely foundational and set, get that set. Um because if you start

PJ: Yeah. Maslow's hierarchy.

Terry: If you start shooting high and you don't have your foundation set and that that sound I mean that sounds I don't want to say easy it's that's not easy simple but it's simple. There you go. I I've had points in my life where I remember my wife and I well I'm going back quite a ways but it was literally I remember going out and going to Sears and getting a a Discover card so we go grocery shopping. You know that's it wasn't the highlight of my life but there was a time it was holy we need to eat.

Um, so there's a reality there. So I I'd say do not underestimate that. Get that set. And that may take you it may be instantaneously for you. As soon as you step out, you're good to go. Um, that may take you a year. Uh, if it takes you more than a year to get yourself stable, then you've probably got deeper digging to do.

PJ: Well, being honest with yourself, right? I think that's an important piece there.

Terry: The um, yes. Yes. The the next one I would do as far as coming out of the military is recognize everywhere else ain't the military. And side note, that's a good thing. I have talked to a lot of people. It's like, you know, if ABC Corporation, if we were run like, you know, if we were run like the military, we'd be this, that, and the other thing. It' be we have clear direction. We have clear go. We would go to I would say, great. If you were run like the military, you wouldn't be in existence, right?

You wouldn't be because you wouldn't have innovated. You would have done this. You wouldn't have been able to turn on a dime, this that, and whatever it might be. You wouldn't able to move into this market and shut this down. You wouldn't have able to had the real difficult conversations where guess what? we need to let go a field sales force. That's a that's a terrible decision to make, but it's the right decision to make sometimes. These are brutal things that that we don't experience in the ar experienced in the military.

Um, so that that fluidity, don't confuse it. Now, certainly there's a balance. You don't want to be completely thrown to the wind with every role or you know as an organization. But more rigor is not always the a matter of fact it's almost rarely it'sn't the solution. Everything running like the military isn't what you want. It isn't what you want. It's not what that organization want. And whether you think it's what you want or not, it ain't what you want. Um so I think be very mindful of this and look forward.

Stop looking back. the way we did it there, the way we did it in the military. We had this SOP and we had all these re and we're gonna put this binder together and we're all going to follow this thing. Guess what? You go put that binder together and it will never be open for the rest of ever and good. Nobody should ever touch that damn thing. You know, uh what I learned and and I feel very comfortable sharing is where someone from the Marine Corps or military would come from is let that rigor go.

Let it go. But you do need to focus on three main things. Ro clarity, know your job, know your job, role clarity, decision rights, and information flow. So know your job and know how it connects or doesn't connect with other people in the organization. And know that it's important to connect with people even though sometimes they don't have to. So if I'm HR, I'm rolling out a big project. It's my project. I got the funding. We've got the s resources. Whatever it might be. I'm going to meet with someone in legal.

I'm going to meet with someone in in um um finance. I'm going to meet with somebody in IT. Um because and they can decide whether I they should know more or not. Um because you don't know the interconnected their interconnectivity of things uh is very complicated and very tricky. If at that nothing else, they don't need to be involved. But they asked to be up kept up to date. Great. That's a relationship capital dynamic. Next time their projects come along, you're going to hear about their projects cuz they may have some implications on you.

So that's a big one. Decision rights, huge. Military, it's very clear. It is very clear. Like we literally walk around with it on us. You know what I mean? You're the decision maker here. You're the you have to go to that one to make the decision. doesn't exist in the in in the civilian and I think a lot of people will say that's a detriment. It's absolutely not a detriment. There are ways you need to understand how your organization makes decisions and it is not always reporting structure.

Matter of fact, I I wouldn't even say it's more often than not reporting structure. Um you've got influencers in various ways. You've got crossf functional dynamics that that are going on. You've got are people looking for to coalesce perspective who forms the recommendation to hand it because knowing who the decision maker is one thing in almost every case outside the military and I would probably I'd venture I guess in the military the person who's actually making the decision isn't the person with all the information. Oh my god.

Someone needs to think this through. Connect all the dots. Formulate a recommendation and lay options out in front of the decision maker. Who's doing that in your organization? I'll tell you who it should be. You if you were doing that and you're going to a senior person, your boss or whatever it might be and your formula and you got to be mindful. You don't want to be stepping on toes or whatever, but you're saying, "I've I've pulled together this information. There's some some really good stuff we can get done. Here are the options that we have and you're having those conversations. The promotion is le is coming."

PJ: Well, that's being a leader, thousand%.

Terry: And that now you can also get mad with this. This is not your job, right? Go talk to your function. Go talk to your manager. I'm not sure why you're here in front of me.

PJ: Fair enough. Yeah, you learned something.

Terry: Yeah, you absolutely learned something. Um, doesn't mean don't keep doing it in different ways, but um, role player decision rights. Last one's information flow. Talk to people more. Talk to people more because again, this this line of hierarchy is is very clear. You don't need to go out to all these different people and have these conversations telling them what you got going on. You know, in the Marine Corps, you'd be met with freeze, stop. Why are you telling this? You and understandably so. It's like why is that a minute of my time that you just took and I don't need you taking?

You know, um civilian organizations are it's very different. Have those conversations. You are building relationship capital and that is so important. That is so important in an organization. And don't think it's all wrong and don't think it should be done differently because that's exactly how it should work.

PJ: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's beautiful, man. Um, last couple questions for you. So, what are what are some like books that have helped shape you on this transition? If you if you had to like recommend one to someone get what it would be,

Terry: oh, on this particular one, um, I'm thinking back to then the book the books I read back then that helped me, one is probably Oh, the one was what What Color Is Your Parachute?

PJ: Oh, interesting.

Terry: Have you read this? famileration it's probably on at this point in time. Now this I'm going back 25 years so that's a little tricky. What Color Is Your Parachute was a book that I read in essence it was what do you want to do when you grow up and understand yourself figure yourself out that type of thing.

PJ: Oh I like that.

Terry: Um that was very helpful with me at the time. I'm hesitating on a little bit because I it was a long time ago and I'm not certain how how it how it um you know how it would work for someone today. But anyway, What Color Is Your Parachute was very good for me. Um another one that I experienced later on and it's more than just a book but it's uh StrengthsFinder. Familiar with StrengthsFinder?

PJ: No.

Terry: So, StrengthsFinder really focuses on um Tom Buckingham the the the the art the author is a fellow name something something Buckingham um I forget exact story but he used to work for an organization did tons of research around personalities and this that type of thing and he came out with this this approach um you answer all these questions so it's it's a personality um battery of some sort right and it kind of give it gives you a sense of what is it that incentivizes you? What moves you?

What is it you're seeking? And I tell you, I went I've done it a couple times and it stayed pretty consistent. There's a lot of things out there. Um, StrengthsFinder, regoric, the color code, um, discriggs. There you go. Oh, I would say I found now more may have come up since then, but StrengthsFinder was the best one I found. I've did I did them. I've done them all. Um um things like Myers-Briggs um I found that a little see all seemed right. I wasn't sure how to really make that work for my career.

PJ: Yeah, there's some interesting things about that one. I I think like the Predictive Index is probably the best one I've seen.

Terry: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, I would say do any of them, do all of them, but this comes back to know yourself.

— Yeah. Right. And and and man, if there's something that comes out of it that you don't you don't think you like, it doesn't mean it's wrong. Yes. You know what I'm saying? So, it's in fact, it's probably a really good thing that it'll Yeah, absolutely. You may have been avoiding it for a long time.

Terry: That's exactly right. And and and got to be honest with yourself and take a couple of them, figure it out. But this comes back to the know yourself. I I did a whole bunch of those. A whole bunch of those. Some I like, some I didn't like. The one I liked the most was um this one, StrengthsFinder. Um but, you know, it may be different for different people. Um but, you know, that's that's more than a book, right? That's a kind of that that's that active learning about yourself, whatever it might be.

Um I I would say if you're if you're going to do anything, got to do that. You got to dig into those things and figure out what moves you and you know your again your your personality construct and proclivity, whatever.

PJ: Absolutely. What about Do you have a favorite podcast?

Terry: I do. I do anything Jordan Peterson says.

PJ: Okay, cool.

Terry: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I listen to his his probably comes out every three days now. Uh if you're familiar with he's got a lot of different things going. I've gone a good one soon. He phenomenal. Uh I've seen him speak a number of times. Um I actually have a great picture of him and I squaring up. I swear to God. I I I got one of these tickets afterwards where you get to meet a meet and greet type thing and I said because everyone walks up and shakes hand just kind of stands there.

I'm like how about we do a UFC face off? Yeah. And it was so great. He just laughed and he goes, "All right." He goes, "You got to promise me you're not going to put this out on the internet saying that I was trying to punch you. I won't." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I I never did actually, but I got this great video picture of me and him doing the like, you know, the Irish boxer thing, running each other. Um, anyway, honestly, I don't want to to fanboy too hard, but that that is a that is an extraordinary mind and uh we are all well served um by him being out in the world sharing his thinking.

PJ: So, I want to pull that through just for a second because we we just have a couple minutes. Um do you recommend people go to those sort of like those uh let's say guru events? Um because I know I know there's some that have served me. I'm curious to get your thoughts on that.

Terry: Um yes. Now the reason I say it like that I read every damn self-help book you could find. Yeah. Um I'm at the point now where I refuse to pick them up and

PJ: Oh, really?

Terry: Oh yeah. They all say the same thing.

PJ: That's true.

Terry: And and now that doesn't negate it that doesn't take away the value of them. Um, but at some point in time I honestly I was just like, "Okay, now I'm a fool for continuing to read these because I'm not getting any more out of this." Now it's about doing it. Yes. Right. Do and I felt I was doing it, you know, for the most part. But you could always do better. You could always do more. You could always do, you know, you understand where I'm coming at.

Um, I remember I was taking a trip. It's probably when I was still at Pfizer now, but but uh I remember I was I anytime I traveled, particularly if it was Asia or whatever, you got some good hours on a plane. Um I would get a good book and that was my objective, get through this book. Um often it was the trip there and back. But um and I never I've never read a fictional book. I don't know that I would recommend that to anyone. That's just how I'm wired.

Um that's not true. In school, yeah, I read a couple book uh fictional books. Um, and I wasn't a voracious reader as a kid by any stretch. Any stretch. As an adult, I am. I very much am. And, um, I honestly it was whatever self-help, you know, accomplishment, you know, um, sees the day thing I could find. Boom. Boom. Snap it up. Pour through. Pour through. Pour through. And eventually I just want now I'm I'm hesitating because I don't want to say I'm wasting my time cuz they're all they've all got some gems and kernels. You know what I mean?

PJ: You can't step in the same river twice, right? Like you're going to get something.

Terry: There you go. Then I realized I was just standing in rivers all day long and I was like, "All right, it's time for me to Yeah. Yeah. Um so yeah, I I would say dig into the So yes, I be mindful who who I don't think there's anyone out there spewing anything that's going to harm you. It's more or less how much is it going to help on, you know, again, I I'd come back to to to Jordan Peterson at that point in time. Um, now there's obviously great minds out there doing great things.

Yeah. And moving people along. At some point in time, you you'll you'll listen to almost everything any one of these folks will say and you go, "Yep, yep. I know that. Yeah. Yeah. I knew that. I knew that deep down." Or, "I knew that. I knew that or I'm doing that." Yeah. and and that's what really matters which I think there's a time and place for it but at some point in time it's time for you to actually well you have to just do it and learn from that.

Yes. Okay. So now you're not sitting in class anymore. Now you're teaching the class and you're teaching the class to yourself. Now you figure out how that class actually portrays into into a business or into an organization. You know there's layers to this thing. Um we could all learn more. There's no doubt. 100%.

PJ: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well hey you gave me so much today man. you've given everyone here so much today. I really appreciate it. Um, how can people find you?

Terry: Oh, u LinkedIn is always easy. Terry Wallace, uh, LinkedIn. Um, also if you look at Venture X Bethlehem, um, you can just call here and you can get a hold of me pretty quickly. Uh, we're going to continue to grow here. So, at some point in time, I won't be sitting out here, but as of right now, I'm here.

PJ: All right. Thank you, brother.

Terry: Pleasure, man. Yeah. Always, always.

PJ: Thank you all for coming by. Um, if you like what you saw today, you know, please give us a like or a subscribe or both. That would be great. Um, please leave whatever you have in the com um the comments. If you have any feedback, you know, drop it in there. I'm I'm happy to improve this in any way I can. You can see we're we're trying to change around like the the set a little bit here. Um, but if you have people that you'd like to see on the show or questions that you'd like to see me ask, please let me know. Till next time. Thank you, man. Never has