From Flying KC-130s in Iraq to COO: A Marine's Business Path

Speaker labels and mis-heard names are corrected by hand; the words are as spoken, filler and all.

Preview clips

PJ: If you want to be good at anything, you have to be prepared to look like a fool, right? If you want to go fast, go alone. But if you want to go far, go together, right?

Andrew: You know, the network, I think, is critical. No matter how connected this world gets on the electronic front, there's no substitute for picking up the phone and calling somebody. So, ask those questions. Always be trying to grow that network and certainly never try to never burn any bridges either.

Conversation

PJ: Hey, welcome to the Mastering the Military Transition Series of the Prize Podcast. My name is PJ and I'll be your host. The purpose of this podcast is to share the story of those who have successfully transitioned out of the military so that you can see some of the tools and tricks necessary to have a successful transition of your own. That way, you don't have to stumble across some of the same things that I know that myself and my team at Prize had to struggle with ourselves.

At Prize, we believe in a world where all enjoy the freedom to grow. And that's why we're developing the Prize app. If you want to find out more, click on the prize.vet link in the show notes below. We hope that you enjoyed today's episode. Please like, subscribe, and if you have any feedback for us, please drop it in the comments. Today we um have a guest with us today um who is in the Lehigh Valley. His name is Andrew Lawler. So, thank you for being here. I do appreciate your time.

Andrew: Absolutely.

— Um Yeah. Sorry.

PJ: Um so, Andrew was in the Marine Corps for uh 9 years. Got out as a captain. Was a KC-130J pilot. Was that J?

Andrew: That's correct. Yeah.

PJ: Um he was deployed twice to Iraq um in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom. Um EAS in 2007, spent seven years as a business leader at Lutron, 2.5 years as VP of Northwest Northwest Operations, excuse me, Northeast Operations at VEC Incorporated and um seven years as a president of Westside Hammer Electric. And right now you're currently, you just started this new role, right? About six months ago.

Andrew: Yes. Yeah.

PJ: of uh the the COO of Barry Isett and Associates. Um and he also volunteers and coaches with numerous organizations around the Lehigh Valley, which is awesome. And if you all don't do that, I highly recommend it. Um so, hey Andrew, just to start us off, you know, I would love for you to like give a rundown if you don't mind of like how you got here, you know, like who made Andrew or what made Andrew who you are today?

Andrew: Yeah, I'd be happy to. So, I I really appreciate the opportunity to kind of share a story and hopefully help a bunch of people in the process uh make the transition for themselves.

PJ: Yes, sir.

Andrew: Um but my story kind of got started I I was a nor a northeast kid. Grew up in Pennsylvania. Um mom, dad, older brother, two younger sisters, and I had a lot of opportunity in in sports and volunteering as a as a a little guy. Um, and that kind of set me on my path towards uh towards high school and some leadership opportunities through the sports programs in particular, captains of sports teams, and and then that kind of led me down this path of of uh trying to find a way into the United States Naval Academy.

So, uh, I was fortunate enough to to have that as my college option coming out of high school. Uh, and then when I was there, I I just really truly fell in love with the Marine Corps, the whole ethos and that that war fighter spirit in particular. So, I went to the Naval Academy thinking I I was top gun generation. I'm going to fly off the back of an aircraft carrier. I'm going to be Maverick, right? Um and then I just honestly just absolutely fell in love with the Marines that I had that I had a chance to interact with there.

Um and so that set me on my path of got to get got to find a way into the Marine Corps. Uh and I was fortunate enough to find the best of both worlds because I was able to get a a pilot spot coming out of the Naval Academy in Marine aviation. Um, and so that took me through Quantico. Uh, I then flight training and was was, uh, able to slip. My first choice KC-130s. Wanted to be land-based. Wanted nothing to do with a boat.

PJ: Wow. So that changed. You were like and Okay. All right.

Andrew: That did change. Yeah. I wanted nothing to do with a boat. Um, yeah. Get it. Sorry.

PJ: Nope. I get it.

Andrew: Um and then uh like just just that leadership that overall leadership development kind of set me on that path. Optempo was pretty high uh during the 2005 time frame 2006 into 2007. I had been a year past my obligation at that stage. Uh I had one daughter who was 3 years old. I'd missed half her life. I had another daughter who was just born and my wife and I made a very very difficult decision at the time because we absolutely loved what we were doing. We we truly did.

We loved the Marine Corps. We loved the the squadron life. We loved the friendships that we had formed. I loved what I was doing as a pilot. Uh two opportunities kind of deploy and um and go take the plane into combat. Uh which you know we you train for Yeah. hours and hours and months and months and years and then you you get to go do it and it it was very fulfilling. Uh but family came first for me at the time, right? Still comes first for me now. still has a lot to do with the decisions I make and and and where those priorities lie and and um and so we made that difficult decision to to exit and that's kind of where uh I guess the story begins in some ways for this for this podcast uh is talking about what that transition was like.

Um but but I tell people nowadays that my career has been one of shrinking geography uh and so Marine Corps I operated globally. I found found a job with Lutron and we can get into how I navigated that that immediate transition. Uh but found a job with Lutron Electronics here in the Lehigh Valley. Um was with them for seven years. Had about 10 or 15 different jobs or roles within Lutron. Um but I was nationally focused there. I was on an airplane every other week going to different cities and on the sales side of things.

Um and then I went from so global to national. I joined VEC. uh largely through that entrepreneurial spirit that I think Lutron in particular does a great job of developing. Um and so I joined VEC with the opportunity to kind of do my own thing, open my own small business, hooked to a larger uh corporation from Ohio at the time. Uh ran that through its paces for a couple years regionally focused uh on the eastern north particularly the northeastern portion of Pennsylvania in the oil and gas market uh from a from a construction standpoint.

And then that led to an opportunity hyper local here in the Lehigh Valley. Uh there were no more airplanes in Andrew's life. There was there was no 2-hour car drives to get bliss. I know. I know. I'd miss it. Um but at the same time, it's been great from a family perspective as well because now in addition to my two daughters, we have two sons as well. And wow. I get the opportunity to coach them and volunteer with their their organizations. And so it's been very rewarding to kind of have this this shrinking of a geography get me really close to home hyper local while at the same time growing in leadership opportunities to to run bigger and bigger businesses uh while I've done it as well. So it's been it's been a great ride.

PJ: That's amazing. And I like how you're illustrating that you know your family has come first and has been a value that you've put above almost everything else. Yes. Um, I'm curious to know, and I think I already know the answer, but I' I'd like to know hear from you like how has that served you, you know, like putting family first above everything. Yeah. In in your decisions up to this point.

Andrew: So, I think it's um it's it's always easy when it comes down to it, right? Like family's first. So, it if you have nothing else in life, but you have your loved ones around you, I think that matters a great deal. Sure. Um, so I've been I've been very blessed. Uh, I'm filled with humility for the opportunities that I've that I've been been able to have in my professional career. Um, but putting family first has has been my northstar in some ways. It's been my guidepost.

It's been my why. You know, if anybody's uh a student of Simon Sinek in particular, those types of things, you know, find your why. Um, but my family has been has been my why. And so, um, I've turned down offers that would have been more lucrative, that could have led to to more dollars because one of the things I learned early on in, uh, in my career, if you will, kind of at that transition point from the military to corporate America, uh, was that you can't really put a you can't put a dollar on time.

Absolutely. Right. And so having time with my family and being able to to to coach and to volunteer and and to be a dad and uh to be a husband, like that's that was super important to me. Um and and that played itself out in my immediate transition from the Marine Corps to Lutron Electronics as well because one of the things we wanted to do is uh I married my high school sweetheart. We were both we both went to high school about an hour south of where we are today.

Our families are still down in that area. Wow. And one of the highest priorities for me when I was looking at what what do we want in this transition where you know uh was we wanted to get closer to home. We wanted to get closer to our extended families as well. And so that that was like the immediate filter that was put on my job search um was I wanted to get somewhere close to home first. And then the second filter was I wanted to be something in the math engineering realm because that's what's important to me.

It's how I it's how my brain works. And you know, you have to do some self-reflecting and and understand what it is that makes you tick and where are you going to be successful.

PJ: Okay. So, all right. When when we're talking about like a transition point in time Mhm. you know, it one of the things that we've probably both seen, I'm sure you saw while you were in. I know I did, too. Um, what was the immediate focus at that time? What did you find or think at that time was the challenge? And I'm not talking about like now reflecting, but at that time, what did you think was the most challenging piece as you were making the transition?

Andrew: I think the most challenging piece was honestly finding a job that could support my family.

PJ: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew: How much money do I have to make? Gosh, like I don't have this basic allowance for housing type of piece. What is how do I how do I put this budget together? So, I remember being very hyper sensitive to the financial piece of the transition. Uh, reflecting back on it now, there's there's a whole lot there's a whole lot more that I've learned in in that time. Um, but I remember I remember and I was probably 30 years oldish at the time. Um, and so I I had never really had to think about some of those those things.

PJ: Yeah. Absolutely. It's provided for you, right? In many ways to

Andrew: Yes.

PJ: H. Okay. So, how did you navigate that? Like what did you do in order to make sure that you had that need met?

Andrew: I think one of the things that that was critical no matter what those challenges are that that folks may experience is having having some good mentors. Yeah. Right. And so I remember leaning heavily on uh a couple of gentlemen in particular uh there were Marines that were still in um but they were senior to me um that provided just some incredible insight on the transition process itself.

PJ: Oh, cool.

Andrew: And I remember um I remember through uh my my mom and dad actually introducing me to some other folks that that building your network began. um for corporate America and I remember leaning on some of those early mentors that they had introduced me to that we were like hey whatever you need in your transition let me know how I can help and we'd be happy to try to get you get your resume in front of the right people and and I would just kind of I tried to develop those relationships and then leaned back onto them with some of those questions that you might be afraid to ask anybody else.

PJ: Oh okay. I mean so how did you approach those questions? Did you have to swallow some pride in order to like just be like I'm I know I'm going to look dumb when I ask this question.

Andrew: Uh I guess there were I don't really I don't remember or recall. I mean it was 17 years ago. I don't remember the specific feeling exactly, but I don't remember feeling that like I should know this. I'm I'm too good to ask those questions. I think I've always been the type of person that will lean on others. I I value others opinions. And so I think um I think a lot of that just kind of came natural to me if I'm being honest.

PJ: No, that's that's really cool. And and I say that, you know, from a standpoint of like, you know, I know a lot of people that do struggle with that where it's like we can't ask a question because I might look dumb. Yeah. Um and and part of that, you know, goes back to, and I'm going to butcher this, but like Stoic philosophy Seneca, he talks about like if you want to be good at anything, you have to be prepared to look like a fool, right? you know um but I think there's a lot of magic in that sort of a mindset because you know I think there's another beautiful saying here right like if you want to go fast go alone but if you want to go far go together right you know um

Andrew: yeah I think building that network is critical uh no matter no matter how old you are when you're trying to make that transition from the military to civilian life from the military to corporate America yeah uh the network I think is critical to to not only the path that you'll find yourself on, but also those folks that will lift you up or support you along the way, even if you're not directly associated with them in corporate America as well. So, there's still plenty of people that I reach out to today.

I don't do business with them. They're not a client of mine. They're just a friend and and I'll lean on those friendships to to ask some of those difficult questions as well.

PJ: So, how do you find most of your mentors?

Andrew: I think put you got to put yourself out there. Um I think they sometimes they start as uh you go to you put yourself out there at a networking function and sure you walk up to somebody and you introduce yourself and you hit it off with them and oh my gosh there's some common background or commonality here. Oh, you knew that person as well and I knew that person and um I think even a connection like like we had, right? We've met we've met each other one time before this and you spoke on a panel last summer and and I was moderating that panel and now here we sit, right?

Whatever that is almost 9 10 months later. Right. Right. Um but those connections are valuable. Yeah. Um I think putting yourself out there is is one way to do that. Um asking for connections from other people as well. M so I've learned to I've learned to uh try to try to like springboard from one connection that I might already have to somebody else who might have a deeper level of knowledge about something as as an example. Hey, do you know anybody who might understand this financial statement a little bit a little bit different for my bas my business, not your business, right? So, yes, ask those questions. Uh, always be trying to grow that network. Um, and certainly never try to never burn any bridges either.

PJ: Oh my god. So, I mean, was LinkedIn a part of that journey at all? Did you use it at

Andrew: I was, you know, it's funny that you brought that up because I was actually thinking on the way over here, uh, about this, how the world is different today than 17 years ago. Yeah. And I actually looked up like when was LinkedIn founded because I don't remember doing LinkedIn at all when I was doing my transition and Google tells me that LinkedIn was founded in 2003. I got out 2007. So I think they were kind of just just cutting their teeth in their infancy there. So, I definitely did not use LinkedIn in my job search.

Yeah. Um, at the time when I got out, I actually worked through a junior military officer recruiting agency. Um, that's we had the internet, not at all. Right. So, we had the internet search these things, right? So, but we didn't have we didn't have near the social media connections. We didn't like the world was not nearly uh as connected as it is right now. Absolutely. um even a decade and a half ago. Um but I remember, you know, using that internet, doing some searches, finding a couple of different recruiting firms.

Um and then I remember going up to Raleigh. I was stationed in in Cherry Point at the time. I remember going up to Raleigh for a couple of hiring interviews, um or hiring conferences. Um, but it was it was more a it was more a face-to-face thing back then. Yeah. Then I think there's a there's probably a a slew of resources available now to folks transitioning um that they can make that electronic connection. Yeah. And and find their way into anywhere in the world, right? Uh that those opportunities weren't really available when I was making that transition. But what I would caution against and um I have four children and my oldest will be 21 next month.

PJ: Wow. Congrats.

Andrew: So I have Right. Right. Um that's why I keep my hair short still. I don't want the grays to show. Um but I tell my own children uh the same thing is that no matter how connected this world gets on the electronic front, there's there's there's no substitute for picking up the phone and calling somebody and making that personal connection with your voice.

PJ: Absolutely.

Andrew: Uh and even better than that is going to visit somebody and meeting them face to face. Um, so I I love all the tools that are available to folks now. Uh, but I I caution against what I just what I described to my own children as hiding behind those tools. Like don't don't hide in electronic world, right? It's it's not enough. It's not enough to develop really close personal relationships. It is not enough to send text messages and emails uh or or connect on any one of those social apps with snaps or whatever else, right? It's just that's just not enough, right? Uh especially when it comes to the business relationships that you want to develop.

PJ: I I mean I completely agree and you know I think that this is actually something that gives military a bit of a leg up because we work in such a connected environment. you know, like you're you're constantly there with your squad leaders and your fire team leaders or or what what have you. You know, you are there in person and you know, if anyone is looking to like stand out a little bit, if you are able to have these face tof face connections, you're going to stand out a bit from your peers cuz a lot of them have trouble with this.

Andrew: Yeah, that's exact. So, my second daughter is is 17. She'll be 18 in another in a month or so. uh and she's going through the college application process right now. And uh we were talking about financial aid packages just last week and and I said, "You know, your admissions counselor, call her." Yeah. Don't send her an email. Call her. But dad, why would I do that? I said, "Cuz everybody else is going to email her." Yeah. And you're going to be different if you call her.

So find ways to find ways to do that. And I know that I start sounding like an old dude when I when I'm saying things like that. But it sounds so simple. It sounds so simple, but it's it is simple. It's something that's so simple yet so easy to do these days. Um and is often overlooked. Right. So it's a way that we can stand out. Yeah. It find ways to be a little bit different. Right. Right. And that's one of the easiest things that you could do is is go visit somebody or pick up the phone and call them because everybody else is doing the electronic thing.

PJ: So I want to I want to back up just a little bit. the you know we the last question was you know like what did you find or what did you think was the biggest challenge at the time I'm curious to know looking back now in reflection what was actually the biggest challenge

Andrew: yeah I think the biggest challenge looking back was somewhat shifting my mindset so I remember mentally feeling like disappointed in myself in some ways that that I was kind of giving up this this Marine Corps aviation job calling that I had. Right. Um it's something that I had worked so hard to get to. Yeah. And I and I truly felt like all the steps that I had taken as a as a youth going through high school, through college, uh like it that was the path I was supposed to be on.

Um, and so I don't think I was conscious of it at the time, but looking back on it now, that mental shift from what you think you should be doing to now I had to put some other priorities ahead of myself, namely family. And and I had to get myself mentally over I'm I tell people like I still joke about like I used to be cool, right? I I used to

PJ: Well, you used to fly airplanes.

Andrew: Yeah, I used to be cool.

PJ: Right. Right. I know what you mean.

Andrew: Actually, now and then at that stage I was kind of flying a desk and then I got into a sales role and and I was out there meeting people and um it it took a little while though to kind of fall into that new groove. Um so I was I think in my present mind I was worried about finances. Yeah. But reflecting back on it, I think it takes a significant amount of of those uh soft skills, that emotional intelligence, those types of things to to get yourself out of one mode and into a different mode.

Yeah. Uh that's out there. So, um it's interest the shift to a for-profit business uh is a very interesting shift and I remember I remember that distinctly. I remember that like I and I remember thinking we used to just kind of put gas in the airplane and we'd go fly just to keep our proficiency and burning dollars while we're doing that and then you get into the corporate corporate world and it's like you know this I remember one of the earliest lessons revenue minus cost equals profit right and so all this cost like why are you spending that Why why why are we spending that? Because that's all that's doing is pulling away from the profit side of the equation. And I don't remember ever thinking about profit.

PJ: No, no, no, no, no. We were super short from that.

Andrew: Yes. Absolutely. Cuz then it was like what if you don't use it, you lose it, right? Yeah. Yeah. Use it or lose it mentality. I remember that as well. So that was on the the business side. That was one of those transitions I had to make as well.

PJ: So would you say it's it's almost like an identity shift?

Andrew: Yes. In some ways I think it is. Yeah. Um, you know, under who you are is always who you are, right?

PJ: Yes. I agree.

Andrew: So that's and and this the sum of all the decisions you made is is kind of it creates your character and uh the environment that you've been in it it builds and creates that character and supports who you are. That doesn't change. I agree. That doesn't change. But uh you know if you want to think of it through you know what's on my business card type of thing and it used to say I'm a Marine and that comes with that comes with a certain level of respect or uh pride or um meaning like a deeper meaning we talk about being a part of something bigger than yourself right that's what that's what you get coming out of the military that's what a lot of people's minds are are trained towards it's not about you it's about the team Right.

Yeah. Um and then that mental shift of what's my business card say now? Like what's my role? What's my job? And I remember for a long time, for at least the first decade, uh feeling like what's the bigger picture? Like am I what am I part of that's bigger than me? M um and it and I was would always search for that and I would always try to to uh find my way onto teams that had like-minded people that it was about it was about something more than myself.

Um but I remember I remember the feeling especially through that first decade as I said of the Marine Corps nearly everybody is thinking I'm part of something bigger than myself.

PJ: Yeah, 100%.

Andrew: And in the corporate world, it's not like that. It's just not. Uh some people are in it for themselves, right? And you find your way into onto teams and those people generally kind of get chewed up and spit out. Um and so, uh it's important to to drive the right culture in the businesses that that we lead and that we're a part of now. Um so that we can be creating this thing that that people feel like they're part of something bigger than themselves. But but that that's a tough thing to do. Um it's it's a very difficult thing to do as a business leader to create this this feeling of something bigger than yourself.

PJ: I couldn't agree more. You know, we we at Prize when we did our initial bit of research, you know, like one of the big things that we found were there are two problems that we came back to over and over. You know, the first one being that there's a plethora of resources out there. It's difficult to navigate that space and and I think we we understand that especially after we get out, right? M but the other one that I think is missed often times is that you know there's this perceived lack of identity and purpose upon getting out and and to your point yes it is always within here but when you first go into the military the first thing they do is to shave your head right there is no more I you know there it's now a team this is so important while we're in to your point of like we're part of something bigger we're serving each other and it's a large reason why we're so effective it's a large reason why we're keeping the people next to us live, you know, like that's what's driving us.

But when we get out, they're just like figured out, right? And that part, you know, of of getting out and putting focus on the security aspect of like, well, I need I need money, right? I need have a family. I need to take care of them. Or I what can I do? I need a job. We try to replace our way of being with a job. H and and and I appreciate you, you know, illustrating that point. Um and and I would urge you all to kind of reflect on this is like that identity is still within us and a lot of times it can be very challenging to find.

Andrew: Yeah. And I think um we started talking about it right at the beginning of this this episode is is that uh that volunteer spirit is where I leaned into. That's where I leaned into. So uh there are a number of things that that organizations that companies are doing nowadays. I I reflect on some discussions that I've just even had over the last week about employee resource groups. Yeah. So many many companies out there have have started these employee resource groups uh to get folks who may have shared past common experiences like veterans.

So people may have a veterans employee resource group. So, if it's a larger or even a midsize or smaller organization, it might just the the scale or the size of that employee resource group might change. Uh, but companies are trying to find these like-minded people. But, uh, we didn't have that at the time when I was coming out. And I remember leaning into volunteer opportunities because that was allowing me this this sense of greater purpose, the sense of helping others, the sense of being a part of something bigger.

Um, and I remember especially coaching, like I just I derived so much inner joy every week from from getting out there on the field and coaching uh my children, but kind of making a difference in the lives of some people as along the way that that really helped kind of in my transition as well. I I I distinctly remember that the the coaching opportunities that I had helped me in my in my mental shift from I used to have this greater purpose. Now, yeah, I'm I'm contributing to the business and and I'm growing and I'm getting promotions and there's some pay raises coming along and I'm feeling more financially secure and right in general.

But uh and then once you once you're in it a few years and you've had an opportunity to to be on that team and get to know the people and and then those smaller close-knit groups start forming again.

PJ: Yeah, absolutely.

Andrew: Like they like they did before. So give yourself some grace in that transition. It it it's not going to happen instantaneously, but it it will come to um a new equilibrium, if you will. But I would I would highly highly encourage people to continue to volunteer, find ways to volunteer.

PJ: Oh, absolutely. I think we're going to we're going to hear more about about exactly that right there. Um I think you know the the community piece is so important. Um that's another thing like camaraderie ship that is is often lost and I I think it's cool. So employee resource groups for for those who aren't familiar um or are making the transition just it's just like an internal community that people are building in in certain um uh businesses and so on and so forth, right? Um, and they can be they can be very helpful.

They can be based on like as you mentioned like veterans or like-minded interests like you know guitarists or you know people who ride horses or or what have you, right? Um but but I do agree with you. I think that like that community piece is important and it exists. It's everywhere, right? You can just go meetup.com these days and and you can find a bunch of people that that are like-minded. Um you go find your D and D folks to to play uh what do you call video games or whatever together.

Uh man, I just missed that one. Um DND nerd. Um anyway, um so is there anything at this point again so now reflecting more like is there anything that you still struggle with? Uh it's been 17 years, right?

Andrew: So it has been 17 years and um I still like it's it's I'm almost I'm almost towards the backside of of the transition, right? It's because it's been 17 years. I'm almost 50 years old. I got maybe good Lord willing 15 years maybe if I things happen right until I'm in retirement type world you know so like from the business transition standpoint uh I've been out I've been out for 17 years I was in for nine years prior to that right so from my career standpoint it's it's been 26 years and I got 15 type of years left right um so I'm kind of towards the back side of that.

The interesting thing that I don't know when it changed. The question is, are there things I still struggle with now? Ironically, the thing I struggle with now is, man, what if I would have just stayed in?

PJ: Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Andrew: What if I would have just stayed in? Because all of my peers have retired right now over the last five to six years. They've all they've all hit their 20 and now they've all retired. Um, and I I struggle with that sometimes. I struggle to think like, should I have stayed in and I don't know the answer, right? I I don't know the answer. Um, it it doesn't hold me back from anything. I'm at peace with it all. Yeah, for sure. For like there's no doubt about it.

I'm at peace with it. Um, we have a we have a sign like one of those uh motivational posters hanging on our bathroom wall. So, we see it every morning and it says, "Your journey is unfolding exactly as it should be."

PJ: I love that.

Andrew: So, I I believe in that wholeheartedly. Yeah. The path that I'm that I'm that I've been on that I'm still on now, it's exactly as it was meant to be. There is a there is a higher power at work. uh the the people that have been brought into my life. Like even in my most recent uh career change here about six months ago, I started with with Barry and Associates and I there were there were literally three angels that came into my life in the form of friends and I have no doubt about it.

There is not a single doubt in my mind that these angels came into my life to to put me on this path. Yeah. Right. It was a shaky transition from my last uh job to to this one. Uh but this is my calling. This is where I was meant to be. And those angels came into my life to help me down that path. Um so I I struggle a little bit with the should I have stayed race, but there's I'm at peace with it all as well because there's not a doubt in my mind that this is the path I'm meant to be on. Um and and if I had stayed, I don't even know if I'd have my two sons. M I really don't.

PJ: Oh, interesting.

Andrew: Cuz they were both born after Rick got out. And if I would have stayed, the OP tempo was again still high and deployment cycles and who knows. I just I don't even know. Uh so I'm I'm totally at peace with it all, but um I do struggle every now and again with should I have stayed?

PJ: Yeah. So I mean like with the people that are just now retiring that were your peers um while you were still in, like what are you seeing with them?

Andrew: I see them uh it's another reason that like there's this higher power at work. I see them leaning on me.

PJ: Yeah, I bet.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. Hey, I know it was a while ago, but when you made your transition and what were some of the resources you used and who'd you reach out to and what does this mean in in the business world and um you know, what's an operations management type of role because people don't even know what that is coming out of the military. Yeah. Um, and so it's it's been interesting with them. I they're on the path they're meant to be on as well. And um, you know, one I have one of my classmates from the Naval Academy. Uh, she's an astronaut.

PJ: Wow, that's cool. Like super cool.

Andrew: She was a Hornet pilot as well.

PJ: Nice.

Andrew: And I every time I see a social media post about another thing that she's done, I I tell people when I grow up, I want to be her. How about this? think and just but being able to use use uh her career and what she's done and what she's still doing today as an as an image and a role model for my own daughters uh to to aspire to to various things. Mhm. I don't see either of them being an astronaut. I don't see either of them being a military pilot.

Um it shows them what's possible, right? But it shows them that it shows them what's possible out there. So find those find those role models. Find find those mentors. uh always be bu be building that network. I think those are the things that are going to set you up for success anywhere in life, but certainly in that transition from the military style to civilian and corporate style.

PJ: Yeah. Well, I love this. This is actually a great segue to the next question I have. Like what would you give like if you had specific advice or you know like what these are the two things that you should probably focus on and getting out and I don't want you to scope this just for the service member. like what about their spouse or or their children? Like what are some things that they should focus on throughout this transition in order to help them with success in this area?

Andrew: Yeah, I think um you probably should have asked me that yesterday. I could have prepared some more thoughts, but no.

PJ: Yeah, notes for next time.

Andrew: Yeah. No, I I think I think it helps to write down your priorities. not just think about them but actually write them down and then figure out which one of those things are non-negotiable.

PJ: Ah okay.

Andrew: Um so I mentioned earlier that that getting back closer to family was was priority number one for my wife and I when we were when we were transitioning out. Um so putting those list of what are that's going to be different for everybody. Absolutely. Some people may prioritize one thing more than other. have a priority list and figure out what which one of those things are non-negotiable and don't sell yourself short from those things. Right? So that's that's step number one. Um I think step number two though is is understand and maybe step number one draws you down this line too, but like figure out that why like figure out your why.

Um and what's going to what's going to give you life? What's going to make you feel like it's not it's not work. uh that it's actually a calling that it's something that uh you're supposed to be doing that's going to fulfill you. Uh it's going to it's going to carry you, bolster you in in the tougher times. Uh it's going to let you ride the highest of highs uh when you're in the thick of it all again. Absolutely. Um so, you know, find those priorities for for your if you're single, find your priorities.

If you're married and you have family, find those priorities. Um but then figure out what's really going to be fulfilling for you as well. And if you don't know, that's fine. That's fine. You don't know. Look at I would encourage people to reflect back on on uh some of the some of the experiences they've had that they've drawn fulfillment from and try to figure out like what was it about that experience that made me feel good when I was doing that? Was it was it that I was working on a team?

Was it that I accomplished an objective? Was it that I got rewarded at the end? Was it Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever those things were, find those things because that's what's life's short, man. Yeah. Life's short. You can find things that truly fulfill you. Um that's that's that's what I would encourage anybody to do. And and uh the third thing I would say is that uh one of my mentors back in the Marine Corps used to say like money is just units. It's just there's more units.

There's there's units coming in and there's units going out. There's units coming in, there's units going out. Um, and so money is only one very one small piece of the overall compensation package, uh, the overall quality of life package. Um, and so by having number one and number two already done, what are your priorities? Where are you going to find fulfillment? Then when it comes to uh the overall compensation or the job that you're looking for uh or that you find um don't discount all those other fringe benefits or things other than the actual take-home pay.

PJ: Oh, absolutely.

Andrew: Yeah. Cuz there are there are plenty of opportunities uh to get paid a whole lot more but have a terrible quality of life in my opinion. Other people wouldn't find it a terrible quality of life, but in my situation I would. Um but those to me what I've seen at seen through other people uh as well is is that leads to burnout oftentimes if you yes if you sacrifice everything for it's I got to get the highest paid job I can that often times uh comes with the other the other challenges that that leads to burnout.

Um, I quick story. I remember Lutron Electronics fantastic employer like no doubt about it and I would speak super highly of of of them to anybody. The entrepreneurial spirit that they breed in people, the things the innovation that they've done, it's tremendous. The people, the intelligence that exists within that company is fantastic. My role at the time was outside sales. I was on an airplane a lot. Yeah. Yeah. And the end for me at Lutron came when I jumped on another airplane on another Sunday and I left my family and I flew to an airport and I remember blacking out for like 30 seconds.

I was walking through the terminal and I didn't remember what where I was. I was just in another airport going another rental car going to like going to another meeting the next day and I just this something's got to change. like I just I can't do this, right? That was that was my role at the time and there there would have been other opportunities within Lutron to for me to to change my role. Lutron had done such a great job breeding this entrepreneurial spirit and I had built such a network through my travels, right?

Uh that another opportunity presented itself to me then and I had to I had to follow that path. I had to follow that path. So, I've been very long-winded on my answers, but hopefully some of

PJ: No, it does. Hey, it makes it good because otherwise this is going to be like a fiveminute interview.

Andrew: Hopefully some some folks find little nuggets, little little little bits and pieces in there.

PJ: I I mean, I had So, thank you. Um, and you know, when you talk about identifying your why, you know, there's a couple of exercises that come to mind for me, but I'm curious there are there exercises or or ways to tease that out that you can think of.

Andrew: Um, I I I don't know that it's I'd be interested in actually hearing what your what the exercises are. We should we should talk about that because in my mind um my why is is associated with my own character. Sure. Which has been built through a series of all my experiences. Absolutely. Right. And so uh to me as I was reflecting on my why it's it's a constant reflection in some ways. You're like you're always you're always figuring out you know has anything changed or what's what's most important?

And and for me it was it was all the it was the life that I had that I've lived up to this point that has created my why. So that's why that's where family has become this central focus for me. Um and and again now my my children are all getting to the spot where now I'm I have a different responsibility to to them. like when they were when they were this big, you got to make sure that they're in bed on time and they brush their teeth and they do those things.

And and now I'm teaching life lessons to my own children, right, about managing finances and and job hunting and college searches and um and how to be a leader on a sports team and how to um you know that I I I like to talk about like that servant leader mentality and it's not out loud yell. It's much much much more about the example that you're setting. than anything else. Um, but no, I mean, what kind of what kind of

PJ: Well, I mean, like things that come to mind for me, I have two in particular, like one is the the seven levels deep. You that one. So, it's like whenever I go to do something, you know, you ask yourself like let's just say I'm going to go buy a car, right? And you say, okay, well, why? And well, because I like that car. Why? And and you just keep going until about seven times estimate. It doesn't have to be exactly seven, but you get to a point where it's like, I have no other answers.

It's like I want it because it makes me feel alive as I drive down the road and and my wind my hair is blowing in the wind and you know or or it could be something to as simple as like I I have to feed my family and you know and I care about them and I'm coming from a place of of of love and and taking care of those that that I really care about. But I guess another way of putting this is is having and you you pointed this out actually with money is is that you have like this means and you have an end, right?

You know, money is nothing but a means, you know, and people want money. It's not because they want money. It's because they want to satiate some sort of a need or some sort of a feeling, right? And it could be a feeling of like power. It could be a feeling of significance. It could be a feeling of security. It could be a feeling of of of giving because maybe that's what you plan to do with it. Yes. You know, so it's it's a means to an end.

So I guess that's what I was getting at is like, you know, for for there are a lot of people out there um and I'm sure you've met some I know I have of like they have a really hard time figuring out this why or like their priorities or or their values or like why they're doing anything. Why am I here? You know, and I think that these exercises can be really illuminating because to your point, right, like if we don't have our priorities set, a lot of times we're just living by accident.

And I think it's really actually easy to do that in the military because you're being told where to be, when to be there, so on and so forth. And we were installed this purpose and this reason, but I'm being told what to do and when to do it and why to do it, right? So, it's really easy to just kind of live by accident. But when you get out, you could continue living by accident. But that's a slippery slope. Right now, there really are far fewer people telling you what to do or why to do it, you know?

And and you can kind of be like, I'll do this and I'll go do that and I'll and and a lot of it is exploration. And I'm not trying to knock that. However, I think that what's really important with that is like going back to those basics of like what are my priorities, what are my values, what's non-negotiable and then becoming congruent in that, you know. Um I know like in my own personal journey, you know, I I struggled with anxiety quite a bit getting out and a lot of it was because I was living by accident.

I didn't know why I was doing certain things. I was inongruent, you know. And once I took the time to really be deliberate about like what are my values? Why am I here? What am I trying to serve? What is my purpose? and I became clear with that. That's step number one, writing it down to your point. Um, but the second piece of that is like, okay, now I have to live it, right? You know, now I have to do that every single day and instilling habits around it and and as silly as it is, like I I love this this app right now on my phone because it's it's it's silly.

It's a game. Um, but it's called Habitica and it's it's gamified habits and and I I love it because to me when I look at it, I'm like, I can't break the chain. So, every single day I'm like, "Oh, snap. I didn't I didn't like, you know, write in my gratitude journal or something like that. You know what I mean? I was like, well, I need to do that because otherwise like I'm going to break the chain. And as silly as that is, but it is instilled now these habits and like anxiety when it's very very high for me um in a lot of areas and imposter syndrome, so on and so forth, I wound up getting through all that by becoming congruent. Yeah. With my values and my

Andrew: That's a great perspective. That's a great perspective. So, I really appreciate you bringing that up. Um, I really do think it's often overlooked and I think that that identity and purpose piece is just something that's just we have to put some more focus on it, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And I think um a great way to to do that is by is surround yourself with with people who will lift you up as well.

PJ: Yeah. Yeah. Rising tide, huh?

Andrew: You you can't go it alone. Yes. Um so I um Have you read Make Your Bed?

PJ: No, I haven't.

Andrew: McRaven.

PJ: No. seen it on it's on my list.

Andrew: Most people have seen the YouTube speech uh at University of Texas commencement. Um but he he wrote a book about it as well and there's some more detail in there as well and I think it's chapter 2 talks about you can't go it alone. Um and it's so true that that that book it you could read it in half a day. Not even I mean it's like 100 pages big print too. Very easy read.

PJ: All right. I'm going to get

Andrew: it's just filled filled with fantastic uh advice for for life no matter who you are. Um I think it would really really resonate um with folks transitioning from the military as well. No matter what branch, no matter where you come from, anything else, but but that concept of not going it alone is very very true, right? Uh and so surround yourself with people who will lift you up and and will support you um along that along that path. Don't go it alone.

PJ: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean All right. So, um, you're you're like throwing in my segways. Maybe because you're looking at my my my list here, but like what what would be your favorite book?

Andrew: That that might be that might be really. Yeah, that might be it. I have um so I read that book uh years and years ago and then it kind of circled back back around to me um because of all things I was searching for some Christmas gifts a few years ago and there's a box set with three books and that was one of them and so uh I got it for my son and for my godson um who they're both early teenage years and so I thought it would be a good message for them to to read.

And then at the time I was uh and I still I still do volunteer with uh the veteran military council here, Chamber of Commerce. Uh I like that book so much that I bought 30 of them. I bought 30 of them and I I gave them out to all the members of the board for the Veteran Military Council. And I still have a few left over that I that I give out now to some of our employees. Um, and I some people, you know, they like sign the book or they, you know, they put a little note inside of it.

And I intentionally didn't do that. And I said, I gave that to to folks and I said, "Please read this. Know that I consider you somebody who's in the boat rowing with me right now." And I'm very, very thankful for that. And I said, "Take this book. It I hope it changes your life. Sign your name on the inside cover. Don't put a message. Don't put anything else. Just sign your name on the inside cover and go give it to somebody else."

PJ: Yeah. I love that.

Andrew: Who knows? Maybe a boomerang's back around to me someday or somebody else. And but but uh you know they and I I think the message I conveyed to to some folks um when they were when they were leaving um was there's a somewhat famous quote. I think it was Maya Angelou who said you know the true meaning of life is to plant a tree under whose shade you don't intend to sit.

PJ: Wow. I love that. That's beautiful.

Andrew: just it's one of those those things that galvanizes me to to try to make a difference just because Yeah. Sure. because it's the right thing to do, right? Um favorite book by I think it's been very very impactful for me and I hope that it's then been impactful for other people because I I tend to share it a lot.

— All right. Honestly, probably going to need another probably going to need another 30.

PJ: Sounds like you might have 50 or 100. Um I love that. Thank you for that.

Andrew: Um, how about you? What's your favorite book?

PJ: Yeah, Think and Grow Rich has been one of my um, so I I picked up Think and Grow Rich before I joined the military. Um, so I mean for for me, for those who don't know, I was uh I went to Penn State and when I did an internship at Walter Reed, um, cuz I was premed, I was like, "Oh my god, I'm bored." Like, and I had to figure out what I wanted to do, right? And and I did some reflection and I was like, you know, since I was 5 years old, I wanted to be a fighter pilot, you know, like I saw a Top Gun, of course.

Yes. And I'm not going to deny it. You know, like I saw a Top Gun, I was like, I wanted to go do that. And um I resolved right then. I was like, that's what am I going to do? And um when I told my when I told my mom, she basically just laughed at me. She was like, there's no way, you know, like I mean to me, you have to understand like when I was in high school, I was like punk rock. Like I was like anti-establishment, you know, like spiky hair collar, like the whole thing, you know? um did not like roles, did not like authority, and and when I told them when I was going to go join the Marine, they were like, "You're you're crazy, right?" Um but I I read that book at the time, and it like instilled in me this fire that was just like, "No, you can do anything you set your mind to, anything." And um to this day, like I I did the same thing actually.

I I I bought the book. I think I bought it for everyone that Christmas and like handed it out. Um, it it just really set me on this journey of like self-improvement and and growing my my spirit, my soul, and then fast forward like out of the military for me like Tony Robbins has been a big influence for me. Um, and a lot of his books have really helped towards that, too. So, I I don't know to this day, thinking is still a big one. Um, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so podcast, do you listen to any podcasts or anything like that?

Andrew: Uh, I I listen to a few different podcasts. Um, the one that I always come back to though is uh is Jocko Willink.

PJ: Yeah. I love that one.

Andrew: Um, I I come back to that and some of the episodes I don't listen to the whole thing, but I I listen to enough to just kind of re-energize myself uh with that.

— Gibbro Kids, did you know that? Yeah. Your kids got a couple of them. Yeah, they're fantastic. My son loved them. My son did as well.

Andrew: Yeah. Um, makes me want to get into uh jiu-jitsu as well. A little bit. I don't think I could take on Jocko, though. No, in fact, I know I couldn't take on Jocko. Jocko, if you're watching, I'm not inviting that.

PJ: Um, no, that's that's cool. Um, and in fact, I really enjoyed his book, Extreme Ownership, too. I thought that was a um a very eye openening book for me as well.

Andrew: Yeah. Um, agreed, agreed. I thought I think there's a ton of lessons there that that again resonate um because of shared experience uh as well. And and you know, he tells he he has a great way of telling stories.

PJ: Yes, he does. and he's got that voice, too. Um, right. One of these days. Um, well, actually, hey, I want to go back to to one real quick. Were there any resources that you used on a transition? Like any um any specific nonprofits or benefits or or you know, tools that you use?

Andrew: Uh there were there were none that I can think of immediately. Okay. Um and there the first thought that comes to my mind though is that the world today is entirely different. It is. Yeah. Yeah. Than it was 17 years ago when I was getting out. So, uh, I think there are a tremendous amount of resources out there almost to the point that like trying to navigate all those resources becomes a daunting task in and of itself. Um, I I think the resources are there, but I don't think it I don't think any of them replace the personal connection and the building of your network.

Yeah. So I I think use those resources for the purpose of connections and and building the network and um and and I don't want to sell any of it short though either. There there are a ton of resources out there that that are not available for for me when I was transitioning back in 2007. Um I think the resources that I did use we already talked about them. So I think I think they were all like human capital type resources. They were all people. Yeah. That I that I would lean to uh with and mentors with past experience or just a different perspective on things. Um that that those connections to people are are what really I leaned on the most when I was making that transition.

PJ: Yeah. Okay. Beautiful. Hey, I really appreciate your time.

Andrew: Yeah. Absolutely.

PJ: system. Um, you know, thank you all for stopping by and watching this episode with with Andrew. If you have any comments, you know, please drop them below. Please subscribe. We could really really use that. You know, look forward to releasing our app this summer for all of you to uh to try out and help with the navigation of your transition process. Um, if you have any suggestions for who else I should bring on to the podcast or, you know, what questions we could ask to help make this more impactful for you, that'd be great. Thank you for stopping by.