From C-130s to Code: He Treated Getting Out as a Blank Slate

Speaker labels and mis-heard names are corrected by hand; the words are as spoken, filler and all.

Preview clips

Andrew: It was amazing just like graduate from college and then right after that, you know, head on off to the Air Force, learn your job, learn all your stuff when you're given your orders, and it's that like figure it out like, hey, you're getting on a plane, you're going to Frankfurt airport and figuring out how you get, you know, over here to the base. Literally, there's a point where I'm like, have I been living a lie my whole life and that I'm actually dumb and like this is hard? I was deployed while the pandemic was happening. So that was that.

So that was uh that was definitely a very different experience cuz he literally just grabs the paperwork and then

hands it on over and then all he says is he's like once you sign that paper, you're passing up on the opportunity to commission in the United States Air Force as a second lieutenant.

PJ: I actually think sales is life. We do it everywhere. Actually in the military quite a bit.

Andrew: As to use the pathway analogy, as you keep walking down the path, there's going to be forks in the road or maybe you don't like where the path is going and maybe you need to backtrack a little bit and go down the other trail.

PJ: One of the things that I see a lot in veterans getting out is one an overwhelming focus on job.

Andrew: One of the things that I feel like is good about like the leadership and what we learn in the military really at all the all the levels is that the importance of teamwork and working together.

PJ: Most veterans when they get out it's like they spend 6 months at the first job. That's the average for a couple reasons. One being that they were so focused on job they didn't take into consideration that like there's more to it.

Andrew: I was not a people person. I was a just focus on the details number crunching type of thing and I was not that personable relatable relationship building type of person.

PJ: What was your biggest challenge getting out of the Mercer?

Andrew: The biggest challenge is

Conversation

PJ: Hey fam, welcome to another episode of the Prize Podcast, Mastering the Military Transition Series. Today we have with us Andrew Maza. Thank you for coming out here, brother. Drove a little bit away. Came from Philly, so I appreciate that. I'm not in Philly for anyone who is wondering here. Um, so Andrew here was a captain in the Air Force. did almost 8 years did as an uh aircraft maintenance on C-130s mostly. Yeah.

Andrew: Uh so I I rotated C-130 uh KC-10 uh C-5 C-17 and then closed everything off with the new KC-46.

PJ: Well, you just named a lot of airplanes that were uh at least near and dear to my heart. Um not so much the 135, which you didn't name, which is amazing. Um the Iron Maiden there. Um anyhow, uh he got out he got into tech and has done some amazing things, especially for a community in Philadelphia. He has started the VetsinTech community in Philly, which um I've been to several times um and has been honestly fantastic. I've met some great people, yourself included, and that's something that uh I really do appreciate, you know, from a networking side of things.

But, um this man, I think, is going to show you a lot of amazing things when it comes to resilience and when it comes to getting out and really just trying things. you never I think that's something that has amazed me a little about your story and I'm not gonna ruin anything but that has you you didn't shy away from betting on yourself and for just like trying new things which I think is something that I I would like to see more of in our community I think is pretty amazing.

So I'm not going to spoil it. Um, if you don't mind, just give a give a quick blurb of like, you know, maybe a 50,000 foot view of, you know, who you were before you got in the military, what you did in the military, and then when you got out and and what that might have looked like.

Andrew: Awesome. Well, first off, thank you so much, uh, PJ for having me here. Uh, definitely appreciate that. Um, so, wow. Uh, so going back to even before it was before. So yeah, like even like I've I've sampled a lot of different things um since getting out of the Air Force and before joining the Air Force even I was the type of person that was just analyzing all the different branches, all the different options. Oh, nice.

So like even just like coming to the decision on the Air Force, you know, I made sure that I stopped by the Army, ROTC, all that. So I went to Rutgers. Um at the time I was thinking of uh security forces. So Oh yeah. Um that's I studied uh criminal justice, sociology. Uh so that's really what my background is. Um and then yeah, from there, I mean, I I just knew that I wanted to get that traditional military experience. Um and it was funny cuz I put in public affairs initially for um my number one choice.

PJ: You would have been so good if

Andrew: um and and and I I didn't get it. I got number two, which was aircraft maintenance. you put in actually it wasn't public force where you put where you you know to to cuz I wanted to lead and you know have impact on other groups and it was a type of thing that I put in uh for it and then right after I submitted my paper I'm like I regret that like I should have put maintenance as my first one.

PJ: Interesting. you got it anyway.

Andrew: But fortunately, I did get maintenance. And the reason why I was drawn towards maintenance is cuz I mean it's the Air Force

and like I mean that's the bread and butter is supporting that flying mission um you know supporting operations and that and really as far as it goes with like leadership challenges and that real impact that you could have. I mean aircraft maintenance gives you that because um the mission has to happen. Mhm.

It's it's something that is rewarding and I I was drawn towards that and got heavies which the heavy aircraft um so the ones that um that are transporting cargo. What's nice about um getting into that specifically is I just love the variety of the mission set that it has because I mean it it's awesome because you could literally be

delivering the humanitarian relief uh during disasters or the airborne jumpers to take out um an adversary. So just seeing that range of capabilities

PJ: well AC-130 too.

Andrew: Yeah.

PJ: So now you're also attacking the enemy directly which is amazing.

Andrew: Yeah. So there's so there's just a lot of capabilities and it was just a really cool experience and the mission never stops because there's always something that has to be moved somewhere. So

PJ: dude, absolutely. So are you from Jersey then?

Andrew: Uh so I went to Rutgers. Um so I was uh over in New Brunswick. So

PJ: in New Brunswick. Okay, cool. And you went to criminal justice. Why did you choose criminal justice?

Andrew: Yeah, because because at the time I was interested in uh security forces because that's another that was another group where you know you're leading a a good core of enlisted troops. Absolutely. Um and just like maintenance the officer to enlisted ratio that leadership um you have a a big team that you're put responsibility to lead. Um, so when I my first position in the Air Force, um, I mean, there's 80 troops that like, you know, you're paired with a chief, um, and you're leading the 80 troops.

And it's like, congratulations, you got your degree and you also completed your ROTC program. Now go forth and lead. And they pair you with a senior NCO. Awesome senior NCO. And you're leading people right off the bat.

PJ: Yeah. No, that's good. So I take you had an awesome uh senior NCO then.

Andrew: I I did. And and that's the thing is that um as as you're serving um you you realize because like once you graduate from from college, you know, you're like, "Yeah, this is awesome. I completed ROTC. I got my butter bar." and you're all excited about that, but like your learning is literally just beginning like it because there's what ROTC teaches and then you know you kind of get the theoreticals of the leadership and all that type of stuff like and it's kind of like you get the study but the real challenge is once you're actually out there leading troops and you're responsible for hey what is it that we do um you know and there's these the decisions that you make

directly affect the quality of life of the troops that you're leading. So

PJ: not even just during afterwards as well. I completely agree with that. Um so you said that you were analytical and you were choosing between air force and army. So what made you choose air force?

Andrew: So air force the thing that so I would say that of the branches that that I was very close to making a different decision on was actually the coast guard. Um,

except the Coast Guard, they didn't have a ROTC program. Like you would had to go to the Coast Guard Academy. I was already a couple years in. And it was funny cuz I did the research. I was I was considering joining the Coast Guard, but then when the captain in my ROTC detachment, you know, he basically let me let me say what my decision was and then he's like, "Okay, well, it sounds like you've really thought this through." So he literally just grabs the paperwork and then hands it on over. And then all he says is he's like,

"But you do realize that

once you sign that paper, you're passing up on the opportunity to commission in the United States Air Force as a second lieutenant if you complete the minimum requirements of the program." And then once he said that, I was like, "Yeah, sir. You know what? I'm I'm good. I I like it here." So, but I I got I got a lot for uh for the fact that I was considering um going to another branch. So, people people were making fun of me.

PJ: Dude, that's funny, man. I've actually heard it's really hard to become an officer in the Coast Guard if one, you didn't go to the academy, but or two, you weren't previously enlisted in the Coast Guard. It's like a they're they're really big on like a you know, a frat, if you will. Um that's really interesting and funny. I got the opposite. Um because I my stepdad was in the Air Force and when I told him I was joining the Marine Corps, he just like laughed.

Andrew: Yeah.

PJ: He was like, "So, let me get this straight. You're going to join the Marine Corps to be a pilot?" And I was like, "Yeah." He was like, "Okay."

Andrew: Yeah.

PJ: Um Yeah. Hindsight's 2020.

Um that's funny, man. So, all right. You you got out. You spent time in in Germany.

Andrew: Yep.

PJ: And then in Travis, yeah,

Andrew: correct. Yep. Over in California.

PJ: How was that experience? I know I've been around Travis. I was in, you know, like San Diego. So, I mean, I've traveled up in in that area quite a bit. I've never been to Germany. Like, how was that experience?

Andrew: It was amazing. It was I mean, just like graduate from college, and then right after that, you know, head on off to the Air Force, learn your job, learn all your stuff. And also just I mean, cuz like I had not left the country prior

to joining the Air Force. Like I haven't I mean I went on like a Carnival cruise once as a kid, but that doesn't count. Like and when you're given your orders and it's that like figure it out like hey you're getting on a plane, you're going to Frankfurt airport and figuring out how you get you know over here to the base. And granted one of the great things is you know you have a sponsor that you know is there to kind of you know bring you back to and you know onboard you and kind of kind of get you get you spun up.

Um so um but yeah it was it was interesting and I would say that one of the one of the one of the most formative experiences actually was just the fact that by being stationed in Germany um so maintenance I mean you all you have a diverse group of stakeholders cuz you're working with operations the people that are flying the planes you're working with cargo um you're working with all these different players and and um that have an interest in it and on top of that by being out in Germany you're sprinkling in um other branches cuz work with the army for the jumpers um and then also working with our NATO allies which was amazing because now you have another layer of just dealing with other cultures and working with them and again it's really bringing a bunch of people together what is it that we're trying to accomplish and then how is it that we work together to do that.

So I would say that that was a life-changing experience. It was amazing to do that. And then also I'm I'm a nerd, a complete nerd. Like I love history. Um particularly medieval and ancient history. So to be there in Germany where I mean you're just a car ride away from all sorts of castles,

all that type of stuff. I I made sure to get all all the traveling that I could. Literally week every weekend I was I was going out and and checking out something else cool.

PJ: So that's amazing, man. I always thought that that was cool. like how I mean I I went to high school over in Pottstown so not too terribly far from here but you know you're not far from like Valley Forge

you know what I mean and like sometimes you look back you're like oh my god it's like 300 years old man or 250 you know whatever and you go to Spain or Germany and all of a sudden you're looking at something you're like oh yeah this is from 700

Andrew: y

PJ: and you're like oh man like I have no idea what history even means you know like I you're you're sheltered from it in a lot of ways here. Actually, that's one of the cool things about the military in my opinion is that you get to go to these places and all of a sudden you're seeing a whole other side of life, not just in existence today, but as it was,

I don't know, what 1500 years ago.

That's insane. So, awesome. What was your like favorite piece of that experience?

Andrew: Oh, that's that's a great question. And one thing as I think of that as well that I also want to mention is there's also the flip side to it that

as you deal with and are interacting with people in other countries there's some cool stuff that we have here in the United States that we take for granted and it's not until we like are starting to talk and they're like oh wow you're by New York City like have you been to the Empire State Building and like then it's like yeah you know what there is actually a lot of cool stuff that we drive by and like we'll take for granted because when we're in our own country, we're thinking of our own thing and then when you're dealing with someone else and it's like, "Oh, wow. Tell me about this." And it's like, "Oh yeah, I know about that. I I drove by that every single weekend."

PJ: Familiarity breeds content.

Andrew: Yeah. So like that was wild. But um a favorite memory. Um so I mean really I would just say that like just traveling to a variety of of countries. Um, and just seeing how each of them has their own special thing to it and just the volume of history that I mean there's there's castles and there's just a way of life that has been going on for hundreds of years and I would say that that for sure would be my highlight. So,

PJ: well, there's a volume of culture too, right?

I think that is something that's cool about Europe is that you can go in a car ride in one day and go visit different cultures. I agree with you about the America thing. I actually think that one of the thing that's really cool about the United States that I got from someone in Europe actually was the fact that we in this country have mountains, the sea, desert, you know, we've we've got all of the different climates and um terrains and Europe has some of them. Yeah.

But I think we again take that a little bit for granted and and you're you're so right. We drive by it on a day-to-day basis and it's old hat.

Andrew: Yeah.

PJ: But it isn't to everyone.

So you came back to the United States uh what you two years in Germany.

Andrew: So it was uh around three years. Yeah. So I I came back and was over in California over uh at uh Travis Air Force Base which is not far from it's over by the Bay Area. So,

PJ: right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Um, how was that? How was Travis?

Andrew: Travis was amazing. So, I felt like I felt like I I lucked out with assignments for sure to get Germany and be able to do all that traveling and then to get California. And to echo your point, I mean, with California, I mean, literally, I could go up to a mountain and ski and then the following day be at a beach surfing. I mean, it's it's just crazy cuz there's just literally all the different biomes that they have. Um, and I love the outdoors. So being able to do that and check out wine country, the redwoods, there's just so much good stuff to do out there and it it was just a a continuation of amazing experience. So

PJ: isn't like the the Yuba River is but or lake river lake both is up there, right? It's over like the old gold country

Andrew: m maybe. I I haven't I haven't checked out that area.

PJ: We spent some time uh up there just uh briefly actually once which I really enjoyed actually. It was it was very pretty. Nice.

Um it was uh I guess I remember seeing the signs for Travis but I never been up to Travis. So what was like when you were at Travis? What was the highlight of that? Because you were there for I mean I guess the rest of your your career at that point, right?

Andrew: Yep.

PJ: So what was the highlight of that?

Andrew: That's that's a great question because honestly I've I would say that given the different hats that I've worn and the variety of jobs,

I feel like you get something special out of each of them because the role of an operations officer where you're focused on production and getting the aircraft off is very different from doing the program support for preparing the KC-46.

PJ: Sure.

Andrew: Um, so I would say that really I mean one of the most definitive experiences is just I mean learning from your senior NCOs's and the experts and being able to work with them and really doing that team building um together because um your senior NCO has been through the position that the troops are that you've been leading where they've um they were fixing the aircraft and learning along the way. Um, and I feel like just, you know, being able to just roll up your sleeves and learn with them as well.

I feel like that's a important thing because there's always the theoreticals to running an organization or the art and science of leadership, all that type of stuff. But I think that it's important to also be able to go out there and actually see the day in the life of the people that you're shaping and having impact on.

PJ: Well, it's you're relating and you're also talking about like empathy a bit too. Yeah. Which I think is required in order to be a leader. So, it's interesting because when I asked you what your your favorite part or the highlight of being in Europe was was the history was the landscape had nothing to do about the military. And then when I asked you about Travis, you said it had more to do with the environment in the military that that you were exposed to. Do you think that that is a function of the culture of the units or the units themselves or your mindset because you were younger? Both. What would you say that's about?

Andrew: I think it's primarily mindset because I'm a more reserved introverted person and kind of going back to like how once you once you commission and once you get your butter bar um you're you're starting your learning journey.

PJ: Oh my god.

Andrew: So, I feel like when I was over in Germany, like it was kind of more of I need to learn my job. I need to, you know, get in the tech orders and all these other things that there's I mean, it's great that you know the compliance and the rules and could get into the weeds and be smart on that stuff, but it's really important to know how to better lead your troops and be able to support them. Um, so it kind of went more for that evolution of where it's when you're when you're starting out, you're you're learning and you're like, I'm awesome, you know, I got my I'm ready to lead and charge and all that to like, wow, you know what?

I have a lot to learn and let me, you know, watch, listen, observe. let me, you know, connect with the right people and bring together the right stakeholders so we could get together and collectively brainstorm and problem solve on how we're going to move forward because

it's just a very complex field. And I mean, aircraft maintenance, for example, there's not like there's not like one person who it's like, hey, this one person could go and fix anything on the plane cuz you straight up have dedicated

careers. Um, like you have hydraulic troops, you have electric, like I mean you have all that and they're all

different career fields that I mean you could make a living and just hone your craft in on that one vertical. So there's all these different shops that go together on the plane. And then there's also just the systems that go into place to fix that plane and then the system that the aircraft is in within the mission and what its part is for the base and all that stuff. So, I really think that it kind of reflects a little bit of that um that maturity as you learn stuff and you learn how critical it is to be able to work with others and partner and just having that exposure to and understanding the capabilities and the mission better.

I kind of feel like it goes from like hey look how cool this is and like you know ready to lead type of thing to like hey like you know what let me learn about this organization let me learn about this plane how is it what is our role and what's our piece and how do we plug in

PJ: yeah that's cool man so would you say then that as you went from Travis to I'm sorry excuse me from Ramstein to Travis it was you were more confident then in your role because you were more prepared prepared based on the experience you had in Germany.

Andrew: Yeah, I would say I would say it's a bit of a combination. I would say that part of it is just, you know, that learning as you go type of thing. Um, but also part of it was making mistakes and, you know, being willing to own the mistakes even if you got chewed out for it type of thing.

PJ: Sure.

— Um, and I we kind

Andrew: out in the Air Force. You do maybe maybe not maybe not maybe not so maybe not to the to the same extent as what as what you'd be used to but um

PJ: that's funny.

So you said you had a really good staff NCO when you first got in. Yeah. So as you were butterbar um if that person helped prepare you and I'm just conjecturing now based on what you said cuz you you talked about how you were largely learning your craft in Germany.

Andrew: Mhm.

PJ: And then the focus based on what you've said in Travis was largely about the leadership part which really honestly is near to dear my heart. Like something that I think I enjoyed the most about being in the Marines was working with the young Marines and like how it was all about shaping their lives for the future to me, you know, and getting to know them as to me. I I I enjoyed getting to know them as people, right? and and everything that you were doing to really helping help it make them a more impactful person, right?

Which to me it sounds like that's part of your focus when you went to Travis. What was it about that staff NCO that helped set you up as an officer and a leader for Travis and that allowed you to become more of an effective leader? What was that?

Andrew: I would I would say it was asking some good questions and listening. I think that listening is an important skill set. Um and then also again making mistakes and owning those mistakes.

So um taking that accountability um when things don't go like what you're hoping that they go. So

PJ: So it sounded like they were a good leader.

Andrew: Yeah. Of of course. And and here's the thing is that I think that I think that um I mean they're senior NCO for a reason. They have experience. Um they've gone through the process. They've gone through the system. Um and there's a reason why um as we're getting developed, you know, we get paired with them and there's different skills that you could learn um different styles um and different approaches. And then of course you know after having that exposure you know taking your own perception and your own experiences and you know just applying that and that's kind of your sauce on how on how you approach it. So

PJ: Sure. Well that's not always the case. Uh and that's why I say that. I mean, I've throughout my tenure met plenty of officers and such that that didn't have that and that weren't maybe as developed in certain regards when it came to leadership or or other aspects of the job. I know me personally, like I didn't personally do a great job focusing on probably the mission set as much as I should have. So to me it was much more about like dealing with the young Marines or dealing with like the administrative work and you know to each their own and we also get developed in certain ways and we have the skills that we bring to the table as well.

Sounds to me like you had a really good experience there which is cool. So going forward to Travis you know you're there for what five four and a half years about. Yep.

Yeah. as you you know so you said you did eight years I'm guessing was there like one reup that you did

Andrew: so with the officers it's it's different because we're appointed into our position and then whenever we're we're at that point where we want to separate after we've hit our time commit then we do what is like referred to as resigning or commission where you put in your paperwork and then you're basically leaving the office. So it's a little bit different that it's essentially you could keep taking the assignments unless you want to put in your paperwork and then separate.

PJ: Sure. So what what made you choose to like say you know what I don't want to be here anymore?

Andrew: You know what I I would say that it was just wanting to change up um just just have a change in pace, try something else out,

do something new, learn something new. And then really having agency and ownership over what it is that we do because of course in the military we have a lot of those decisions made for us where where your assignment is, what jobs you're going to take, all that type of stuff. So it a a big chunk of it was that. But then also a big chunk of it was as well um cuz again early in my early on in my career I was not a people person.

I was a just focus on the details, number crunching type of thing. Um, and I was not that personable, relatable, relationship building type of person. Um, I was just very much in my own um type of thing. And um I would say that as you work with other people and you build and intentionally polish those skills, I've started to I I I learned along the way and got more of those skills and how important the relations um are to build um and I'm sorry, what was the what was the question specifically?

PJ: Well, it was it was what what made you make that decision of getting

Andrew: Oh, yeah. Yeah. So then the sec so then the second piece too is that um also I was just at a point where I felt like it was it would be nice to be able to settle down and put roots somewhere where rather than having it with every single PCS you're having to restart and rebuild your network every single time. I was thinking because again with relationships, relationships compound. Yes.

And in the service we have really really tight relationships because it's amazing because I mean I have friends even to this day that I'm in touch with that I mean they're all over the world and I feel like that's something that we get through service. But the thing is is that I was also at that point where you know I wanted to have it where it's like okay cool. uh when I make friends and you know figure out an area that you know I'm able to stay here and build and have it compound. Um so that was another thing as well.

PJ: So something that I I I feel you on this something I I don't think is maybe talked about enough and this is traumatic in another way. Um so I'm not trying to downplay any sort of traumas in any way. Also, I'm not trying to diminish this sort of trauma and and that like you're right when we're in the military, it's very

common and and probably under there's not a lot of focus on it. And it's it's this concept of like we build relationships with people and we become very close with them. We go on deployments with them and sometimes that can be a very intense experience so that the bonds become very strong and then we come back and it's poof and we're all gone, right? And maybe a couple stand behind on the, you know, in the unit or whatever that may be and then it rebuilds and it's a whole new group of people.

And while that may help in some capacities like you're talking about of the practice of building new relationships, especially if that's not your strong suit, you do get practice doing that, but then it starts all over again.

Andrew: Y

PJ: So that sounds to me like that was something that you're like, I've I don't know that I want to do this anymore. Is that fair?

Andrew: Yeah. And and I'm I'm going to add actually to that point is that um cuz like yes, you know, I was in Germany, great assignment. California, great assignment, but also I mean I I deployed multiple times and in those deployments you're meeting people and there's that churn and my final deployment actually happened during the pandemic. Like I was deployed while the pandemic was happening. So that

so that was uh that was definitely a very different experience cuz like I didn't have to worry about the oh are we going to run out of toilet paper or hand sanitizer cuz you're on an installation and the government has you covered basically. But I mean the the thing is is that um when I got back it's like I I returned from the deployment and a lot of that core group that I had of you know I had like really good friends that you know we we play board games together you know we do like all sorts of stuff and travel and all that and then you return from your deployment and most of them have already PCS you know that type of thing and then to be doing that like during the pandemic when everyone's like on lockdown and it's like hey you know like you can't go out and do anything still like it's it just was it just was strange times of course.

PJ: Yeah. No, very strange times and everyone handled that differently. So like what did that do to you?

Andrew: So I mean like we're we're on lockdown. The mission still continues. So mask up and get it done. Absolutely. So

PJ: Well, but I mean like what you're describing to me and tell me if I'm wrong here. You're you're describing like an onthe clock versus off the clock thing. Mhm. What did it do for you or do to you maybe off the clock? No. How did that affect Andrew off the clock?

Andrew: That's a great question. Well, I think I think that part of part of it is that I mean everyone everyone needs to, you know, you have your job, you have your, you know, profession, whatever. Um, but you also need to have a certain amount of balance and quality of life. And I feel like it adds a layer of, you know, thrash in it. But of course, it's it's it's something that you could overcome. I mean, there's ways to um to to still meet people and all that. And I mean, was still part of it. It's just

the fact that you're having to reset like so many times. Um, I feel like that was, you know, just something that at least for me personally, you know, I was at that point where it's like, okay, I'm ready to, you know, be able to settle down, have it where, you know, have your house, have your home, build your own thing and, you know, contribute and you're building into the community that you're staying and you get to actually see that compound rather than always having to reset and that type of turmoil.

PJ: Yeah. Well, I mean, I know that I know that the and I was in a very different place when when COVID happened, you know, so that's why I'm asking. And I know that it affected people in drastically different ways, drastically. I know mental health took a dive on a lot of people. I know kids, you know, like with school, like all of a sudden like reading is a problem for a lot of kids. Writing is a problem for a lot of kids. Socialization is a problem for a lot of kids. And to me it's interesting because I wasn't in the military when COVID happened.

Andrew: Yeah.

PJ: So my experience compared to yours in this regard is interesting to me. So that's why I'm pulling that thread a little bit. You know, I talked to like Sean when he was on the episode and um and and how it was for him in in being in COVID in in the military. Um so I was curious as to like how that that might have affected you. And it sounds to me, and tell me if I'm wrong, but it sounds to me that that could have been somewhat of an impetus also behind getting out.

Andrew: Well, I was I was considering getting out and then like I basically went forward with it. But I would say that in a way the impact would be more along the lines of you're getting out but a lot of stuff is on lockdown and it's not as much of a hey you know go out and meet or try out these different things or you know start this or that um because a lot of it was still restricted. So, I would say that that definitely added to the challenge.

Um, because you're figuring out just getting I because you're getting out and figuring out and go through that process and that in and of itself is a beast with all the stuff that gets covered in TAPS and then when that and that transition is also disrupted by a pandemic that adds a whole another level of things to navigate. So,

PJ: interesting. So, tell me about that. What was what was that like in in your transition journey? Because you did a lot of stuff

in a short period of time. I mean, you got out 2021.

Andrew: Yep.

PJ: So, what it's been five years like you've done a lot of things in that 5year period. Tell me tell me how that went like how did that n how did you navigate that?

Andrew: Yeah. So, the the thing I I personally believe in and I like telling other veterans is that when you're getting out like treat it as a blank slate. Unless of course, you know, you wanted to continue doing what you're doing in the Air Force, like, hey, I'm aircraft maintenance officer. I want to, you know, work with American Airlines and do their maintenance management. I mean, there are for certain career fields direct equivalencies that, yes, you know, there's a process, follow that. But if you don't want to do what you did in the military, I would treat it as a period where you get to experiment because you're basically resetting. You you don't really know what right looks like for yourself and it's a ongoing process of discovery

and what better time to do it than you know when you're when you're getting out. And for me, okay, cool. Well, I'm good at planning and I'm more of an introvert. Well, what is it that I could do to challenge myself specifically? I love that. I always had an idea that you know what,

I'm interested in business. I want to I want to learn more about that. I want to own a business one day. So, that's why I mean, first stop was, you know, study marketing and then get into sales because if you don't understand sales or you don't understand revenue, you're not going to have a business that long. I felt like it was intentional and that's part of that transition at least for me was I wanted to challenge myself that I haven't done just to try my hand at it and pick up the skill sets along the way and see how it goes.

And really from there that that's where I worked into the IT support role. And when I was in IT support I wasn't just sitting like you know like this and just like waiting for a call or a ticket to come in. Yeah, I wasn't growing wasn't growing in the neck beard. Although I did grow a beard for a little bit when I got out. So, it was pretty epic. Um, but like I wasn't just sitting around waiting for, you know, the calls or whatever. I was being proactive and um wanting to learn.

And that's really where I the beginnings of that of that tech path were because I was doing the IT support learning that role, but I was also treating it as a student because the the company that I worked at owned all of the tech inhouse. So I mean I came in on my free time

and I would shadow the product manager, the scrum master. Oh, cool.

The software developer. Literally, I learned what an IT and a tech department did. And it was when I saw what the software developer did, I was like that I want to pivot over and do that. Um, and that was one of the things that was kind of a frustration of mine um, within IT support is that, you know, you could see the problem, you could capture it, you could take good notes, and then you pass it on over to the team that could go in and fix it.

PJ: Sure.

Andrew: So, I didn't, you know, like part of me wanted to have that reward of because, and I get it like sometimes, you know, it doesn't make sense for a certain person to do something in a business. You're not going to have a six-f figureure, you know, software developer on a call telling someone plug in the printer. I get that. But the but the thing is is

but the thing is is that by by trying that and challenging that's like where I was able to kind of learn and get like a mini MBA because I mean like I I was taking tickets and a variety of tickets where it's like oh wow legal department has a has a issue with tech let me just go down there and talk to the lawyers ask them about their process how does it work and really I was able to learn a lot of different like samples of the business and like HR because everyone has tech problems.

So by taking the tickets, you get to meet and understand those parts of the business, but then also just by being in the tech department, you get to kind of see everything else that's going on. And for me being to be able to train yourself and get those skills where even if you're not going to fix it, you know that if you played around with it long enough, you could. I felt like that's something that was empowering and like having some of that control and that agency over what you want to do um was something that I found intriguing with software development. So

PJ: yeah, that's really cool. And then so you went from there to Hack Reactor. Is that how you put that?

Andrew: Yep. From it support to Hack Reactor. And I applied, got a scholarship and yeah, that I got into it and that's where I I learned it. And um yeah, it was a about a six-month program and I I didn't know anything. I didn't even know like Python was a language type of thing. Like I I knew nothing. I knew Yes, exactly. It's a snake.

Um I I knew nothing about it. And it's like to get that fire hose of information where it's just like, hey, here you go, learn it in a week. Um it it's it's intense. And to go through that that process and again I I feel like it's important and this is just getting into philosophicals. I think that it's important in life to challenge yourself and grow and seek seek continuous improvement and literally there was a point where like cuz it was it was challenging like learning learning to code especially not knowing any background or dabbling in it cuz I was I was doing it support but that doesn't you know give you the skills for like hey how do you fix this line of code or what's wrong with it and like going through that like it was I literally like and that's why it was it was a good thing to go through because literally there was a point where I'm like have I been living a lie my whole life and that I'm actually dumb and like this is hard like I do not get this problem.

I do not know how to solve this algorithm and you know you kind of stay on and just stick it stick with it and eventually like you know you the concepts start to stick but it was like I was like I I I was really beating myself up on that cuz I was like am I going to be the person who here I'm the veteran in the class I got the scholarship like all this stuff. am I going to now be that stereotype of being a dumb veteran type of thing where like I'm not I'm not smart enough to do this or whatever.

And of course like I I I stuck stuck with it and saw it through and um you know like one of the things that I feel like is good about like the leadership and what we learn in the military really at all the all the levels is that the importance of teamwork and working together and I mean software development a lot of people think like of just the hard tech part but it's a team sport where you're working with people and you're capturing requirements.

There's a whole piece to it. So, um, I feel like those those skills were really helpful for that. So,

PJ: brother, you just dropped so many nuggets. Um, I'm going to start pulling these out now. One of one of the things that I see a lot in veterans getting out is is one, an overwhelming focus on job, which I understand because on the surface that's what the, you know, we did in the military was a job on the surface.

Yeah. But what we don't take into consideration a lot of times was the overwhelming amount of certainty that we had in the military which is one of our most basic human needs and that is gone overnight. And then there's also this identity piece that is given to us in the military that is also gone overnight when we leave. So I see a lot of people focus on like job job and because they're trying to replace some sort of certainty or security, right? You went a completely different route.

You actually and and I I think I did something very similar. uh you you doubled down on actually uncertainty and challenging yourself to be uncomfortable in order to learn which I admire by the way because that's that's a lot of my need structure as well. But I don't see that a lot. Like a lot of people don't go that way. A lot of people are very I I need to replace my income. I'm going to go get a six figure job. I'm going to go, you know, job job job.

And a lot of the times people, in fact, I don't know if you know the statistics, maybe you do, um, statistic of like most veterans when they get out, it's like they spend six months at the first job. That's the average for a couple reasons. One being that they were so focused on job, they didn't take into consideration that like there's more to it. Um, and also maybe it wasn't fulfilling.

Andrew: Yep.

PJ: And then I of I often see the picture changed to purpose, purpose, purpose, purpose, purpose, purpose. But the hard part about that is purpose is not something that comes from out here. So I bring all that up because you you didn't go to security. That wasn't seemingly your focus here. I'm And I want to know like what allowed you to do that. What was the mindset? What was the maybe it was resources or or like benefits or something, but what allowed you to do that?

Andrew: Yeah, I would say a a mindset of curiosity and intentionally challenging yourself to build where you feel like you're weak as well as what the skills are that you might want to have for the future. Mhm.

So I'm thinking at some point I want to get into entrepreneurship. In the military like you don't learn anything per se of entrepreneurship. You're not selling you know it's it's a it's a different thing. I mean yes I

you could make an argument to that sales is at the end of the day persuasion and there's influence and all that type of stuff. But like the thing is is that like

when you're in aircraft maintenance you're not how much profit do we get? What's our margin? All that type of stuff. So there's there's skills that you need to learn with that. And I would just say it was really that curiosity and just trying out different things and just leaning into different things to find out, hey, what is it that's right? You know, what's what's wrong for me? All that type of stuff. and really starting at that rather than just having eyes on, you know, what you're what you're supposed to do or, oh, hey, your background is aircraft maintenance, so you could do these maintenance jobs or these types of things. I feel like starting with that curiosity first

and kind of and and exploring that identity piece I think is is very important. Um, and the thing is too is I mean also people have different factors going on. Like I have an easy mode like I don't have a family that I have to take care of yet. So I'm able to take some more risks and the different career paths that I try or what I do cuz it's not going to impact my family directly. So

there's that as well. Um, but I I would say that really just trying out a few different things. And I think that's some of the reason why some people might get kind of locked into that is because there's so much of the ski so much of the focus on getting out is like here's your resume and how you brush this up and all that type of stuff. But it doesn't get

it doesn't get as much into that. How do you process just a just having a completely different lifestyle

from what you've known? And you don't realize how different it is

until you get out. And

that's like one of the things is that

I feel like there's a void that you get that you don't find out until you don't have what you're used to. And

managing that is, you know, where I think that is a a challenge and that everyone has. And that's what makes it like such a can of worms and such a complex thing is that and it's fascinating because the the pathway and the way that we learn and adapt is all different. And I mean you see veterans like we come from and that's one of the things unique about our community is that we come from all walks of life, all backgrounds, like literally every type of way that we could be different.

We are we come together. We form an identity through service and connection through the mission. And then after that, like it's a hey, like everyone has to hang up the uniform at some point, whether you retired, got separated, whatever. Like, and then at that point, like people just go in all sorts of different directions and do different things. I mean, some people do what they did in the service, others do something completely opposite. I mean, you get like people who get into tech, you get people who get into acting.

I mean, it's like fascinating just all the different ways that like veterans go. And that's that's I I feel like one of the challenges is that everyone has their own unique path and at the end of the day you got to own it. So

PJ: Well, right. Yeah. Absolutely. Um so how what's the balance there for someone who maybe does have a family?

Andrew: Yeah. So so that that would be that is challenging cuz I would be speculating because I'm speaking from a position of not having to take care of the family.

PJ: short because you have the community, right?

Andrew: Yes. But what what I would imagine is that I mean it's really having it on board with and communicating with the family cuz again just like a team like a family is a unit together. Yeah.

And doing it together and being on being on the same page and making sure that like you're covering for each other. I feel like that is one of the critical things because sometimes you have to take a step sometimes you might have to take a step back to take a step forward. So you could learn some of those foundational skills that you could build on that will get you into the next opportunity or at the next level.

PJ: Yeah. Yeah. Know that's interesting. Um I I agree. I I think that you're absolutely right in that you have to take them on the journey. I think that's something that I did a very poor job of getting out is not really realizing that like my family was transitioning also. Specifically my wife was transitioning also. and I was blinders, you know, like job job.

However, there there are a lot of programs out there that I think that allow us to explore and it's important that we take advantage of these

things like VR&E I think is is something that very much so allows you to go out and explore in a lot of ways. Um I think that there's, you know, there's organizations that allow for this. There's communities like the one you're building that allow for for this sort of thing. And I would encourage a lot of you to go out and and to seek out a lot of these different organizations and communities and stuff that exist out there so that you can discover what you may like or just just to learn and express and use. a lot of the skills that we did get in the military that I do think are very important.

The sales thing, I'm going to push back a little bit on this. I actually think sales is life. We do it everywhere. Actually, in the military quite a bit, I have to get buyin from say I'm unlisted. I need to get buyin from my my staff NCO for a certain, you know, part that I might need. If I'm I'm a mechanic, I might need to get buy in from the CEO to take a certain course of action because I know that it's best for whatever it may be.

I might need to bring numbers into that, by the way. Um, so I think sales is life and and I think that that's something we really do learn quite a bit about. So I think that sales just in general is a natural thing that a lot of veterans can get into. Um, but to your point, I think that we can also learn other aspects of that. MBA is great for that. Um, marketing. Oh my god, marketing. I wish that was something I spent a little more time getting into earlier on.

Uh, there's just so many options and I think that curiosity, especially if it comes naturally, is can it can just set you up for success in so many different ways. Lean into curiosity if you can. So, I'm going to bring this back home now. You you started a community. I met you at an event that wasn't even one of your events. I think that's something that you're kind of a master at is is networking. And for someone who is a self-proclaimed introvert and someone who said that you struggled with this early on, I would love to know how you overcame that and why you decided to start a community like VetsinTech.

Andrew: Yeah. So, a few things to unpack there. First, I'm going to just say with the sales, I'm in agreement that sales is in everything. It's in life.

Um because sales at the end of the day is persuasion. And absolutely, we do learn those skills in the military. Um whether you're persuading or talking with your teammates, whatever it is, it is embedded

within everything. So, I'm actually in agreement on that. Um the part that I wanted to get out of it was more so the understanding of revenue and some of the pricing and how to kind of do those types of things. But um for building the community, I mean really it was it was about impact and connecting people. And the the thing for me and it and it's funny cuz as you're mentioning it, I mean

like I I do consider myself still to be more of an introverted person. And the thing is is that I mean here's some networking hacks at least that I kind of would want to share with people is that if you are more if you are more reserved I think that one of the one of the best hacks is to just be showing up cuz you know what like what starts out as you're in the room and you don't know anyone at all eventually you show up consistently enough you start seeing familiar faces and then it becomes a lot more comfortable and easy for you to navigate that room because it's like oh hey PJ what are you doing So, um there's that.

Um but really it was it was about it was about community and connecting and I mean cuz I I went to I went to coding boot camp and was getting into software development. So I I'm I'm big on veteran advocacy and I care about veteran advocacy and I was like, "Okay, wait. So there's a nonprofit here that takes veteran advocacy and also combines it with tech and I get to put the two of them together and have impact. Yeah. Awesome. I want to do that. Let's let's get that out here in Philly. Um and then started it from there. And I mean just really learning what that what the what those values are, what the mission is,

and then being able to just communicate that to other people and be stakeholders um and think of the win-win scenarios like how can you work together to make a stronger, more tight-knit community and achieve those objectives together. Um, so th those are just a few of of the thoughts if that if that answers.

PJ: Yeah. Can and I I I very much so honor you for the fact that you want to challenge yourself and to grow in the areas that you are quote unquote weak. I think that going and starting a chapter of a community is probably one of the hardest things that someone that maybe struggles with networking could probably do. Um, and I, by the way, I don't think you struggle with networking. I also want to clear up, I think, a little bit of like the idea of an introvert versus extrovert. introvert really just means that it takes a lot of energy to connect with someone and and to to really this this may or may not be draining you. Um but there's also certain people that can drain you more than others as an introvert and that's really it.

Andrew: And and I'm in complete agreement and I love you bring up that point that it is a matter of energy management. It's not a matter of, hey, can you go out and talk to someone? And I feel like by having that impact, that's kind of like that pool that you have to draw to, you know, recharge your battery. Um because it's like, okay, well, you know, maybe on that day where, you know, you want to be lazy and, you know, sit down and like, you know, watch TV or do something else.

It's like, well, you know what? I need to go out here and meet people and, you know, get the word out here and I know that I could connect people and that this is an important thing and that you could tap into that to give you some of that some of that battery and charge that. So,

PJ: well, I think it's beautiful that that you're going out there and sharing that that energy to lead a group of people so that they can connect and overcome whatever they might be overcoming to learn a skill that might propel them in life.

Andrew: Yeah.

PJ: So, all right. Uh I'm I'm curious to see what time. Um I'm curious to know from from you and your experience like what was what was like the number one thing that you took away from the military that has set you up for success in the civilian world so far? M

Andrew: I really think systems thinking

and it applies to it applies to aircraft of course because all sorts of different systems there. Um, but systems also tie into software which helped me. And for me, that was one of the biggest things I got out of software development was actually having something that was kind of a tie-in where it's like, okay, well, like, you know, aircraft is like systems, there's all these things. Software is like systems. There's a front end, there's a back end, there's a that's a a database, all that type of stuff.

Um but then you start seeing those patterns as well in like basically everything else in life because guess what a community is a system. There's different people you know coming in that live in different parts of the city have different needs all that type of stuff and then seeing how those all interact and operate.

Um so I would say that really it was that systems thinking

and that strategy that I've always I've always been curious. I've always loved the, you know, the planning and the, you know, setting the objectives and doing all this different stuff and working towards that. And I find that to be very rewarding and satisfying.

And I mean, it comes out of course when you're in the military because I mean that's like straight up what you're doing in aircraft maintenance management, you know, when you're when you're running that. Like there's a lot to that, but you know what? There's a lot to that in community building,

in building software. And I feel like really that system thinking I think is something that it was kind of like something that I've always had, but the military is, you know, what allowed it to get pulled out. And then by going through this pathway, it's also allowed me to kind of see some of the pattern and the draw towards it. And that's kind of, you know, where I've been where I've been going essentially and how I've approached that community building cuz where, you know, we have our community which is its own little system within a bigger system that is interconnected to all sorts of different things. So,

PJ: dude, such a great answer. Such a great answer. I I I've heard this a lot and actually I heard this a couple times recently from from veterans where they're just getting out right now and they're, you know, I'm saying like, "What are you trying to do?" and they're like, "Ah, well, I don't have skills for XYZ."

I'm like, "Hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up. Let's think about what skills you actually need." And I love that you just illustrated this because we do have so many of what they would quote, I'm just going to use the term, but please don't take it for what it is, soft skills, right?

That we get, dude, we get in spades in the military and we don't think about it how it can translate out into the world. You're so right. When it comes to like AI for instance, to me, when I look at AI now as a technical person, when I when I think about all of my experiences that I've had both in the military, out of the military, and you know, Meta, whatever, what has set me up most for success in AI today? It has largely been the ability to think in systems.

Because if I can now connect my AI to you know my Jira board or or whatever over here and I I make basically a system that all feeds itself that is when has become way more impactful than it were just like I'm using it like a Google search or whatever it may be right.

Um dude great great point. So, what has been the number one experience in the military that has maybe not been as useful or resourceful in serving you outside of the military?

Andrew: So, it's it's funny cuz here's the thing, and I think that this applies to everyone, not just veterans. I feel like so with the with the military, we have a really tight-knit community, a very close-knit community. And the way that you kind of think as you're in that system is, okay, well, what's uh what's the Air Force going to assign me as my next assignment? Um what are the options? And it's kind of all laid out for you and it's given to you there. Um just like when you're in a private company, you're at a job, that company has opportunities.

And I feel like there's a it's just naturally easy to kind of settle in and get comfortable in your own space where you have your job that your network is only the people that you work with or the network is only the military community as you're in that community.

And I feel like it's important to just to broaden that horizon and just meet other people. And I mean the thing is is that like networking at the end of the day like is just a conversation about human connection. And I feel like I feel like being able to do that. And the best time to network is really when you don't need something like it. It really is because I feel like you give a different aura and there's just it's it becomes harder if um and and it's not really the right approach if it's like I'm going to go to this event and what could I get out of something? What's it

like type of thing, you know? like when you're able to just go there and just enjoy and have good conversation and just be genuinely curious about like hey what what is it that you're doing with your startup or hey how is this like and just having that natural curiosity I feel like that could go a very long way and really just just breaking out of that idea of your network is only you know where your work is or where your family is or whatever and just always be expanding that bubble and just who you meet because you never know where you could connect people with opportunities um or whatever.

PJ: So, so what was it specifically about the military that um I'm trying to tie that together. So, what was it about the military that um existed there that is not serving you or wouldn't serve you out in the civilian world?

Andrew: The idea that like what because when we're in the military, we get our assignment handed to us. Our job is set is essentially set in stone with with a few exceptions, but you know, hey, you're a maintenance officer. That is your path for your if you're going to take it to 20 years and retire. And guess what? We decide where you go.

Um, so I think that that is that mindset that it's very important to think through because you don't have someone managing your career. So, it's important to

think about where you want to go and you're accountable to and having to come up with your own career pathway and plan

of which I think ironically sometimes when you're busiest you could lose the sight of it as well because you're you're building you're building and it's like wait hold up where where is this going to take me a few years from now that like you build something and then you're like wait hold up like you know what I spent a lot of time on this and then I took it to market and realized it needed adjustments. So really just like I feel like trying out and like rapidly you know being able to just test out and try out ideas and um you know kind of like what I mentioned earlier like you know lean into something and if if it doesn't feel right or you don't like it it's like okay cool well you know kind of shift and pivot. I think that that applies to life as well as it does business and a lot of other things. So,

— so the mindset of basically being told your path verse like taking control of your path.

PJ: Yeah, I I agree with that. I agree with that. I I I think that you're right and that that is farreaching beyond the military. You know, I I mean, you've probably read in books and articles and stuff that like one of the biggest regrets that people have on their deathbed is, "Oh, I should have done X."

Andrew: Yep. Yep.

PJ: Um, and I think that you're absolutely right in knowing the what or the why that you're heading towards as well as opposed to just being busy.

Andrew: Yeah.

PJ: One of the things I used to be on a poster at Meta was like um uh don't mistake motion for progress.

Andrew: Mhm.

PJ: I man I I try to keep that in the back of my head all the time.

Yeah. And I know that I've been guilty from time to time of like not poking my head up sometimes and just being like, why am I here?

Andrew: Yep. Yep. Yep. No. And and that's and that's a fair point and it's very easy especially if you are really enjoying building things and like you know you're caught up and passionate about what you're doing where it's like wait hold up what's what's you know what's going on like because like it's easy to kind of go down that trail. And something that you mentioned that I thought was interesting also was just mentioning some of the impact with AI. I feel like AI is changing the landscape in such a way that I mean people could test out and experiment with more things safely because you're able to apply your domain knowledge and critical thinking and test out and try out a few other things and again it speeds up that process of hey let me lean in this direction.

Oh no I don't like that. I'm not interested in that. Oh that's what that entails. like I I kind of feel like you're able to do it even more rapidly and really by using that using AI as as a tool um I feel like that could help you as well along the way.

PJ: Oh, absolutely. I think Mark actually brought up a point when he was on the show of like, you know, thinking through what a path might entail, you know, like I'm going to school to be an engineer.

Yeah. and not really knowing that that include math. You know what I mean?

And you're absolutely right. You can go on to ChatGPT for instance. Uh and in fact I think ChatGPT has a whole pack of prompts specifically for transitioning veterans by the way.

Um but being able to say like hey I'm curious what it would look like to get into engineering. What would that look like? What would my day-to-day life be like?

Yeah. I'm here right now. Project forward six years. Like what is what would that look like? I mean, we have an an incredible tool available to us right now that can just open your eyes to a lot of things if you try. If you try. Um, what was your biggest challenge getting out of the milary?

Andrew: I would say that the biggest challenge is just really finding and I feel like it's still like something that like I I go through right now is just really finding that true purpose and what it is it that you want to do.

Yeah. And it because right now like even you know kind of putting together a variety of different skills and learning and getting experience. Um but still like figuring out some of the stuff on the business end and there's also a point where sometimes you just get like such an abundance of opportunities that that itself could be a good problem overwhelming like where it's like okay well you know like there are so many ways and that's why like you know trying things out like you could come up with some like cuz like that atypical adventure that you're talking about with all the different things that I tried like that allows you to put together some unique combos where you could be like, "Hey, you know,

did operations management, have uh sales, marketing experience, all that stuff, and then you could creatively pivot and lean into a certain pathway or another one." And I feel like that is that's really one of the biggest challenges is just kind of kind of just finding that out and figuring it out and just forging it forward. And the thing is too is I mean just like

like building I I just really enjoy building. So, it's also, you know, just making sure that you have that focus as well, cuz it could, as much as it could be

a a really good thing and a blessing, you also have to have some focus as well as you're applying it. So,

PJ: Well, absolutely. So, finding what's right for you. Is that what you're saying?

Andrew: Yeah.

PJ: Yeah. I I do understand this. Um I do understand this. And and to me, I think that it's very easy when you're in the military because you know why you're there. There's never a question, right? Although I I I met I think an old vet the other day who was like tell telling some story about how he was guarding some satellite up in Greenland and he was like, "Why am I here?" So maybe not always, but but I think in general like we have an idea. We know why we're there. Yep.

Right. And that doesn't always translate out into the civilian world. And the thing that personally I think that has become more useful here is personally my own my own path was really becoming clear on my own personal values and then the purpose became just reinforcing those values.

Andrew: Yep.

PJ: You know what I'm saying? Um and that was kind of like we had a conversation before of like it has to come from within. It can't be something we seek out there. Yep.

And that's something I I see a lot is people trying to find purpose out in the world or with a job

Andrew: and and and personally that is why I mean at least for me um I mean also seems like for you as well and I mean I I feel like entrepreneurship is an especially good fit for veterans because

PJ: oh yeah

Andrew: you're at the you're at the helm of the ship and you're setting those values and you're you're able to steer the ship. You're able to go and take it in the direction that you want. Um, so that and that's the thing is like business and that's what makes it fascinating because there's really two things to business. There's the product or service and then there's the systems that you build and put in place to make it predictable, repeatable, scalable,

all that good stuff. But you're able to because I feel like when you're in the service, the mission is clear and it and you know it's important. You know what you're contributing to the greater good and you're part of something that's bigger than yourself, right? And then after getting out of the service like I feel like one of the best ways and at least at least for me I kind of feel like helps that helps fill that void is that entrepreneurship path or that builder where you're building something you have agency and control over it and the direction the values you have the input on it. Um, so I feel like that's something especially with

Yeah. And and the thing is is that especially with all the variety of skills that we pick up in the military, it just makes it such such a good fit. And um sometimes it's just, you know, having that courage to really take that leap and just press forward.

PJ: Yes. And bet on yourself.

Andrew: Yes. Yes.

PJ: Yeah, man. Um, thank you for that. Do uh what's um what's your favorite book?

Andrew: Favorite book? Okay. Good one. Um, so I would have to say that Success Principles is one of my favorite ones because that's what really that's what really got me to it first into like just thinking through self self-improvement and self-help like where it's actually like shares some stories has some anecdotes all that to it. Um, but I would say that that was one of my top ones like I read it multiple times. I took it with me on a on a deployment. Um, and one of my favorite hacks that I got out of that book was it just mentioned the what they refer to as the hour of power, which is 20 minutes of uh of physical fitness, 20 minutes of spirituality.

Um, and then 20 minutes of uh the like it's mind, body, spirit type of thing. So, um, doing that every day. um which I have not been disciplined on that recently, but when I was when I had it as a routine, that's kind of what got me into reading just a variety of different things on business or just leadership or just self-improvement. And and I I like it too cuz it's like practical wisdom that like, you know, you could think about and then apply to life type of thing.

PJ: Well, getting your brain right on a day-to-day basis, I think, is is absolutely huge. And actually what's really really interesting about this is when we don't do it, it generally takes a couple days before you realize like all of a sudden like, oh, I'm not I'm not acting the way that I want to act. Right.

Andrew: Yeah.

PJ: And then you get back into it and you're like, wow, that's powerful.

Andrew: Yep. Yep. And constant reminder.

And and that's the thing, especially with today with how much information we're overloaded with.

Yeah. You got to think of all the little micro disruptions that you're having That's right. to your thought process um throughout the day. And unless you have a disciplined approach on it, um you're going to possibly go all over the place with it. Um and um that that that itself is something that

PJ: Well, not to mention garbage in garbage out.

Andrew: Yeah, that too. So,

you know,

PJ: um who's that by?

Andrew: That is I think it's I think it's Jack Canfield, I think, is the author. Did the did the Chicken Soup for the Soul books and like some of those other Yeah. So,

PJ: that's cool. What about what's your favorite podcast?

Andrew: Favorite podcast. So, I haven't really listened to any podcasts in a while.

PJ: Oh, no. Okay.

Andrew: Um,

let me think.

There's there's a there's a there's a podcast that was uh Yeah. So, so there's only been a few podcasts I listen to. One that I listen to routinely out of habit was um there's a there's like a motivation podcast. I'm forgetting the name of it, but like it would it had it might have been maybe, but like it it just would have some like motivational uh content. So, I would listen to that occasionally, like just put it on because I I think it's good to just expose yourself to other ideas and thought leaders and just hear how, you know, successful people think.

And ju just also tying tying into that, I feel like the environment is also important that you're that um that you put yourself in. And by putting yourself out there and you know getting into the circles of people that are building things whether it's companies, communities, it really just like opens it opens up your mind to a new realm of possibilities that you might not have otherwise been thinking through if you're you know in your own vertical only and not really focusing on the bigger picture by being around people who are positive that are growth mindset oriented. I feel like that's another thing that's important and could carry over into that mindset as well.

PJ: Absolutely. Well, I think that we all we all have things that we grew up with that are, you know, limiting beliefs, things that have held us back. And the interesting thing is is when we fight for our limitations, we get to keep them.

Andrew: Y um

PJ: All right. I appreciate that, man. How can people get a hold of you?

Andrew: Uh so best way to get hold of me is uh through LinkedIn. So I'm on LinkedIn, Andrew Maza. reach out, connect, send me a note and happy to do that. And then also, of course, our uh chapter of VetsinTech, uh the Philly chapter, um we have a chapter page that lists all of the resources, um as well as what our upcoming events are. So,

PJ: awesome. Yeah. Well, as usual, drop that all in the show notes and everything. Is there anything you want to leave um the crowd with? Like, is there any tips or anything like that that if you had, you know, someone was maybe transitioning out right now that you might want to impart on them?

Andrew: Yeah, I would I would just say own your journey and just think through and don't be afraid to experiment and try out different things because sometimes it's that blend of trying out a bunch of different things that it got you that exposure that

you found the pathway that you want to take. Um, and even then, I mean, as to use the pathway analogy, as you keep walking down the path, there's going to be forks in the road or maybe you don't like where the path is going and maybe you need to backtrack a little bit and go down the other trail. Like, there's all sorts of things, but you won't know that without um just putting yourself out there and taking action,

PJ: right? Yeah, action is super super important and and maybe a little underrated.

Hey, fam. Thank you for stopping by again. Thank you for staying with us all the way to the end. It would really mean a whole lot if you know you would comment, like, subscribe. It it helps us out way more than you may know. And if you have any suggestions, as I've said, you know, on other episodes, like our the feedback is huge. It really helps us improve. Um, we really do want to make this useful and impactful for anybody who is watching. Share it with your friends if you know someone who's transitioning out.

And, uh, hey, stop by for some other episodes. We've got some really, really awesome people on, as as he alluded to, Troy and Mark on one of the episodes. It's been some really, really great people that we've had. Thank you very much for stopping by. Thank you for stopping by.

Andrew: Hey, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

PJ: Appreciate it.