How to Rebuild After Getting Out of the Military | Troy Beane

Speaker labels and mis-heard names are corrected by hand; the words are as spoken, filler and all.

Preview clips

Troy: You know, I was in the Air Force. I was just a dumb wrench turner, you know, sniffing fumes. I go to the Army. They made me an officer. We started that program with 120ish uh candidates.

PJ: Mhm.

Troy: Graduated 12. I go and I check and I've got an email back from the unit. They're being activated for a deployment to Iraq.

My squad was going over. They've got to go through a train up and everything. You'll be able to get there in time. And I was like, "Yeah, okay. I can see the logic of that." And so the aviation dream died that day. They signed the security agreement at the end of December. If I get in there, I have no mission for like six weeks.

PJ: Wow.

Troy: Well, we can't actually execute that way anymore. And so mission change, mission change, mission change. Like I was assigned to every battalion from the beginning of that train up to the end.

PJ: One of the the pieces there that I think is missed overnight that we don't often talk about is this idea that like we had certainty in just like it it was it was second nature. Like we had we knew where to be somewhere, what to wear, how to stand, how to talk. You know, you were given your dental appointments, you were given all of the stuff, your your housing, your food, everything. It's there. You don't even have to think about it. Health insurance, it's all there. and you get out and all of that is gone overnight. And by the way, that's our most basic human need.

Troy: Yeah.

PJ: Is safety, security, certainty, however you want to call it.

Troy: Maslow's hierarchy, right?

PJ: That's right.

Troy: Specialist Kirk Kraut was guys in my team didn't make it back.

You know, they had some issues on that deployment. I mean, it was it was Iraq in the early days. It was it was a mess.

PJ: I'm curious to know what your mindset was that made you flip that switch of I want to I'm here because I want to go aviation and and that sort of thing to I want to deploy with my squad.

Troy: I was, you know, pretty insular, just worried about security. There's wide street sidewalk and then there's like beachfront hotels and things. Just going out to go to the 7-Eleven, grab a six-pack. I got halfway across the sidewalk and a screen door on like the fourth floor of this, you know, beachfront condo thing slammed shut and I'm just like I don't I'm having a panic attack.

I went to the VA

and they told me I was fine.

PJ: I would argue that most if not all suffering in the world comes from expectations not meeting reality. So we fret over it in whatever way, shape or form.

Troy: It took a friend of mine to give me that opportunity. I didn't know what a cons what's a consultant.

No idea.

PJ: Yeah. Yeah.

Troy: Right. But lo and behold, I found a connection there. Yeah.

And changed my life trajectory.

PJ: Maybe maybe just maybe there is a piece a nugget a tiny little piece in here that they have experienced that could potentially be useful for me. It might take some sifting.

Troy: Sure.

PJ: But this is the whole idea of the diamond in the rough.

You know, how do I now sift through it to pull that one gold nugget out of the silt that I get

— could change your entire life?

— Could change your entire life trajectory.

Troy: Yeah. I'm going to steal this quote from uh the old senior partner at Green Castle. He's like, I'd rather be a smaller uh percentage owner of something much bigger

than 100% owner of something much smaller.

PJ: Yeah, agree.

That makes sense.

Troy: It takes a long time for that stuff to

PJ: sure

Troy: calm down and I drank too much. Yeah.

That uh that was how I coped. I was angry. I was furious with my fellow Americans for taking for granted what they had, not realizing what the rest of the world's going through, what it looks like.

PJ: What would be the number one piece of advice that you are giving them um and maybe their family in order to navigate like the transition?

Troy: Yeah. number one thing that I would say for someone getting out is

Conversation

PJ: friends. Welcome to our next installation of the Mastering Military Transition series of the Prize Podcast. Today we have with us Troy Beane. Thank you for being here.

Troy: You got it.

I drove a little ways to get here.

PJ: Before we kick anything off, I do want to give a couple shoutouts. one to Ben Franklin Tech Partners here in northeastern Pennsylvania for letting us use this wonderful space here. Pretty cool, right? Sense of Egyptian stuff. I know you can't see. Maybe someday I'll do like a little tour of the the studio, but um so thank you for that. I appreciate it.

Also want to give a shout out to Raul who has been editing our podcasts and actually doing a pretty damn good job and also getting uh the clips and the shorts and all of that stuff out there. If you had feedback for him at all, please drop them in the show notes. but overall or in the comments rather. But overall, I've actually been pretty impressed with what he's done. So, thank you, Raul. Appreciate you

jumping right in.

Troy: Sure.

PJ: Um Troy being here. Um he was in the Air Force starting off, correct? Originally,

um active duty.

Did I think four years, right?

Troy: Uh so my entire career was in the Guard.

PJ: The entire crew was in the Guard

Troy: with a lot of active duty time

PJ: with Okay, there you go. But you got out for a little bit and then you went to um the Army National Guard. Is that correct?

Troy: Actually over overlapped. It over overlapped.

Yeah. So, I actually enlisted in 98 into the Pennsylvania Air

Guard.

Uh looking for a bonus somewhere and found my way into civil engineers. So, liquid fuel system maintenance. Stinky job. Had a little bonus connected to Yeah.

Uh but, you know, learned to trade and those kinds of things.

Uh and then, you know, 9/11, Iraq war. Uh and I saw an opportunity to go from the Air Force to the Army. Maybe do a little more. Are you like the Air Force is great for me?

PJ: Yeah. I was going to say it's usually kind of a backwards

what' you do too many fumes or something. I don't

Troy: Right. Right.

Bump my head.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: Uh but I the last year of my enlisted contract with the state of Pennsylvania. I was able to switch from air to army.

Just got the adjutant general to sign off and did a try one uh as an infantryman.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: In a detachment outside Phoenixville. Um, that lasted about 6 months before my commander was like, "You need to go to OCS."

PJ: Wow, that's pretty awesome.

Troy: That's a fun joke. I love telling everybody. He's like, you know, I was in the Air Force. I was just a dumb wrench turner, you know, sniffing fumes. I go to the Army. They made me an officer.

PJ: So, it's really actually that's that's really interesting. I it's so being a Marine I I see people go from grunt to you know like Air Force because it's like we lived in hell why why go anywhere else and you went from the chair force to uh a grunt

which officer at that which is an interesting roller coaster ride

tell me I I'm actually really curious so I'm just going to let you do the intro because I completely screwed it up but um your your movement there from enlisted air force to officer army was one of how would you characterize that like what what would be a phrase that you would give to that in order to lend credence to it properly

Troy: uh fraught

PJ: fraught why

Troy: I had no idea what I was getting into you know their cultures are so different

PJ: they're very different

Troy: and you know as a you know working in a

in a trade shop

in the air force um you know your first line supervisor is another NCO like the officers you see are like the base engineer right there aren't many so

PJ: interesting okay yeah

Troy: leaving that culture and I mean and it's small teams or independent functions right you go to the army like teams squads platoon

PJ: right right

Troy: I'd never seen a lieutenant

in my time. A short amount of time being an enlisted infantryman before going to OCS. I had no

PJ: You had no like measuring stick.

Troy: I had no model. I had no mental model of what a PL should be.

PJ: Interesting.

Troy: Yeah.

PJ: Interesting.

Troy: You could ask my soldiers, they' probably say, "Yeah, we know."

PJ: So, so when you say fraud, like is it because you're learning from like a fire hose or like what was why

Troy: there was just a Yeah, it was it it was a lot. Um I went through the accelerated OCS program in Pennsylvania. Uh,

PJ: I didn't know we had no OCS here.

Troy: Yeah.

So, the regional there there's it partners with a couple different states. So, it started like phase zero it's like they're smoking you or whatever just trying to weed out the people that aren't really committed. Uh, and then phase one is in Maryland Camp Fretterd and then phase two was back at Fort Indiantown Gap for like a month and phase three is down to Fort McClellan, Alabama. Was hot

and then that's it.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: Eight weeks. Eight weeks standing on your head. Do you think but we started that program with 120ish uh candidates.

PJ: Mhm.

Troy: We graduated 12.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: So it was high attrition rate.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: But most of them washed out after the first phase. So

PJ: yeah, I I remember that actually from OCS for the Marines. It was like we started with 300 and I think we had 120. Yeah. So very similar. Well, I mean you you went down to 12. Um

Troy: I think they they cycled them into there's like a traditional program. It takes like 18 months.

PJ: Mhm. 18 months.

— That's like drill weekends, right?

— Oh. Oh,

Troy: you imagine that? I mean, like, kudos.

PJ: That's dedication.

Troy: Kudos to those to those guys and gals, but like I'm not doing this.

PJ: No, that's dedication

for 18 for 18 months. Yeah.

Holy Um, okay. Wow. Um, interesting. So, so fraught because you didn't know what you were getting yourself into, but but is it also fraught because you're you're now navigating the culture? I think you said that, right? So, I'm not making things up,

but um did you know that there was going to be that cultural difference?

Troy: I had no idea.

PJ: You had no idea. Okay.

So, I'm always thinking, so like you got you got to put these things into perspective.

What even planted the seed?

Troy: Uh yeah, I wanted to do more. I I wanted to lead. I was like someone once told me it's like if someone opens a door for you, you should you should walk through it and see what's there. You can always go back.

PJ: Yeah. Yeah.

Troy: Right. Um, so I didn't go there with the anticipation of going to OCS.

PJ: Okay.

Troy: Uh, I did, you know, want to, you know, when I joined the Air Force, I wanted to fly, but I had glasses and all that kind of stuff.

Uh, and I knew I couldn't do that.

Uh, so I still wanted to pursue something like that, but I had no like time frame, timeline of, you know, I didn't really know. We'll see what happens. Yeah. Right. And I didn't even have my degree,

right? They allowed me to do an early commission. it. I didn't I didn't finish

PJ: You didn't have your degree.

Troy: I didn't have I didn't finish my bachelor's degree until I was a first lieutenant.

PJ: Interesting.

Troy: Yeah.

PJ: Wow.

Troy: So, just a whole lot of learning in that, you know, young time frame.

PJ: So, the reason I'm I'm kind of drilling on that is because there's a transition here.

Troy: Sure.

PJ: Right. And and that's kind of the whole point of this podcast, right? Um was there anything in that first transition that you found to be particularly challenging?

Troy: Um it was eyeopening to see the the role of the the middle enlisted like the the staff start the E5s E6s uh from one to the other

PJ: right

Troy: uh in the Air Force they're more individual contributors right

PJ: oh interesting

Troy: in the army right they're they're leaders like they're in your they're in your business they're developing you they're working with you not that you know that doesn't happen it's two totally different cultures and function In the army, you know, the unit is the team, right? In the air force, it's like you need to go and perform this task and maybe work alongside others in varied trades in order to perform a task. But, you know, they just function differently. So,

PJ: that's interesting.

Troy: Yeah.

PJ: So, what part of that did you find to be enlightening and what part of that did you find to be challenging?

Troy: Um the enlightening part would be that you get to contribute like you have to you have to perform to the same standard as everyone and replicate all of the same things

but then you can still excel and help lead and find other opportunities in the army. In the air force it's just this is the task like it you know from beginning to end right. It's like you did it you know turn your work order in it's complete.

PJ: Interesting.

Troy: You know two two different things. Yeah.

PJ: Working independently versus working together. Okay. So, I could see I could see pros and cons of each.

Okay. Um, so you were you retired from the Army?

Troy: 21 years in the Army specifically

uh from the Pennsylvania Army National Guard, but as an Army Sure. My last day in uniform

uh was in Kuwait.

PJ: Oh, wow.

Troy: So, I I left from a deployment uh you know, knowing that I was complete. Yeah.

Um, and I haven't haven't shaved this chin since that morning,

man. It took a while to grow.

PJ: Yeah,

Troy: there's some trimming, but freedom beards and everything.

PJ: Yes. So, I understand.

Um, we'll get there actually because I want to talk about that. But,

um, I I think this is really just fascinating because you went from, and I'm saying this, by the way, as someone who I wanted to fly planes since I was five, right? And then I went to the Marine Corps and did that

Troy: and you got to do it,

PJ: right? But but you went Yeah. You went from the Air Force, which I think everyone has that mental model of like this is where you fly.

To the Army, which by the way has more aircraft than the Air Force. Um and and you didn't pursue that.

Troy: Well, funny you mentioned that.

PJ: Okay.

Troy: So, when I was going to OCS, like I had the opportunity. They're like, "What branch do you want to do you want to pursue?"

And I went into OCS thinking, I'm going aviation. I'm okay. Yeah. Fly Apaches or something.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: And you know, we got through to like the sixth week or so where we're finally allowed to go get into our emails and things. And I go and I check and I've got an email back from the unit. They're being activated for a deployment to Iraq.

My squad was going over.

Yeah. And I went to my uh TAC instructor and I'm like, you know what? I'm going to I'm going to put push pause on this. I'm not going to finish. I'm going to go deploy with my unit and then I'll come back. And he's like, "Dude, like you don't realize how far you got through this already. You were almost there. You know, just finish branch infantry and go over with them. they've got to go through a train up and everything. You'll be able to get there in time. And I was,

yeah,

okay, I can see the logic of that. And so the aviation dream died that day.

PJ: Wow.

Troy: Uh, and that's what I did. except that after, you know, getting through OCS, rushing to get a seat at the basic course down at Fort Benning, getting through all of that, not going to Ranger or any of those things which are typically follow

uh basic um got home so that I could go with him, reported to my battalion commander, said this what I want to do. He's like, absolutely not. You are way too green. Okay.

And so, you know, that stung, but I understood it.

Um, and so my career started there. But, uh,

PJ: so you didn't deploy with them?

Troy: I didn't deploy with them.

PJ: Okay.

Troy: Uh, t with it. There's connections to that deployment though. So, uh, Specialist Kirk Kraut was guys in my team didn't make it back.

You know, they had some issues on that deployment. I mean, it was it was Iraq in the early days. It was it was a mess. Um, so I would was trying to do that. Who knows? Might not be here.

PJ: Yeah. Well, that's a a fortuitous way to look at it. Um, I'm curious to know what your mindset was that made you flip that switch of I want to I'm here because I want to go aviation and and that sort of thing to I want to deploy with my squad. Was it the brotherhood? Was it that you felt like you were being left behind? Was it that you felt a sense of duty? All of the same

Troy: a combination of them, you know, deciding to go to OCS.

I wanted to do more. Leaving the Air Force to go to the Army. You know,

it was a month after the Iraq war started that I got my paperwork through and left. I was like, look, I love the Air Force. I had a couple of like fun deployments, like short short tour stuff.

Um, that was interesting. I I had two deployments, short deployments to Saudi. So, it' been over the course over to the desert already. One immediately after 9/11.

PJ: Wow.

Troy: Uh I wanted to get in the fight, right? I uh we we had stuff to do, right? And I wanted to be a part of that.

PJ: So, when you said you wanted to do more, it was stemming from that.

Troy: It was okay.

It was. And not knocked in the Air Force at all.

PJ: Sure.

Troy: But I was a bit of a hard charger. So that culture was a little it wasn't the best fit for me, right? So it was time to go try something new.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: And you know, it it fit. Um so that kind of got activated in me in that moment. It's like, you know, I can absolutely be an infantry officer. This is I wanted to go fly, but that was that was for me.

Now it's it's my guys. It's and what more of a challenge can there be than to be a leader of men in combat?

PJ: 100%. Yeah. Absolutely. That's beautiful. Uh and you got to do that. So you you did wind up going to Iraq.

Troy: Couple years later.

PJ: A couple years later, same unit.

Troy: Uh same same brigade, same battalion,

different people.

PJ: Different people.

Troy: Yeah. Sure.

Cuz you know they move you around.

PJ: Of course. Of course. And that's also probably part of it's like no, you can't go with those guys. It's like you can't like they always move you to a new unit when you go from enlisted to officer because those relationships.

Troy: Absolutely. Right. It's difficult.

PJ: Mhm.

Troy: Uh so yeah.

PJ: Okay. So how was that for you? Like actually finally getting to go over there. Did it did it play out the way you expected it to?

Troy: Um I don't know what I expected.

PJ: Okay. So you didn't have expectations?

Troy: Not really. like let's just go like who knows what we're going to see what we're going to get into what the roles are going to be and yeah there was a lot of shifting going on

uh I had a lot of different hats to wear just through the mobilization

uh when I uh so I was an infantry PL uh the unit we were in adopted the Stryker platform so we went through the whole

new equipment fielding process and training

uh so I was in Charlie Company first 111th when I was a PL Well, uh, so we got the Stryker designation. Didn't have the vehicles yet, but so we're training.

PJ: We're pretending.

Troy: Yeah. A little bit, right? But then you start to get some of the some of the equipment in. Yeah.

Uh, I got an opportunity to take an XO position as a first lieutenant and

uh, a nearby unit that was moving, being relocated, reorganized under the under the brigade just anti-tank unit. It's in Hamburg, Pennsylvania. And well, I never never seen a TOW system, but it's smaller unit, right? It's more specialized.

Uh, and that was an air defense artillery unit before. So, we've got to train these soldiers that were not infantry men to be infantry men and field the equipment and and deploy with them. So, that was a talk about transitions. That was pretty interesting.

PJ: Okay. So, what what was that like?

Troy: So, um, my commander at the time, which I'm sure he'll love that I'm going to quote him on this, uh, Brian Leard, great guy. Um, was it's it's the Hamburg Rod and Gun Club.

PJ: Oh, yeah.

Troy: Yeah.

And that is not I mean, you could snicker a little bit about it, but like the tightness and the culture and the connection

PJ: and the connection

Troy: of those guys was so tight.

PJ: So, good leadership.

Troy: Yeah, absolutely. They uh they looked after each other.

Uh there was this guy, Staff Sergeant Hornburgger, had this giant mug of coffee,

cigars, like hardly any teeth. He He's like, "I'm going." I was like, "Brother, I love your heart." It's like, "I don't think you can pass a PT test. I You know, I think you got heart issues." It's like I think you know you be a part of the auxiliary come back and see us but I don't I don't think you're making it on the deployment way.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: But like that's the type of commitment that they had.

PJ: Yeah. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. And and so then Iraq. Afghanistan.

Troy: I didn't go to Afghanistan.

PJ: You didn't go to Afghanistan.

Was it Iraq twice?

Troy: I was Iraq in 2008 2009.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: And then Kuwait in 1718.

PJ: Oh okay.

Troy: For Spartan Shield.

PJ: Wait, I'm wondering if we over overlapped at that time.

Troy: Yeah. What were you doing?

PJ: No, I got out in 17. Um 16. I got out in 16. So that would have been before that. So Spartan Shield, what did what was that all about?

Troy: So that was like Army Central Command forward.

Uh so we were uh kind of that ARCENT level over all of the Middle East. This completely different deployment. I mean that's uh it's hazardous duty pay but I mean

it's Camp Cupcake at Arifjan right right I mean

— there's a Chili's

— I mean

Troy: I mean lots of dust storms the weather's not good but I mean there's a lot here and there but yeah

yeah there's and there's a lot of missions that that were available around there and that was like a division headquarters

— it's more strategic

PJ: I got you okay so so how how was that going from one deployment to the other like what did that do up here

Troy: oh they're very different completely different expectations. I mean Iraq in uh 2007208 and we were transitioning from offensive operations to more of like the stability ops, right? Like the security agreement got signed

I think right before we got in there. So we were leaning in to conduct offensive operations unilaterally and then it was getting warrants for any raids and like all that kind of stuff. It was you know another transition happening in real time. Uh, so completely different.

PJ: So, I want to touch on something right there. Um, I've had several people on this on this podcast and it's affected them differently of like, I'm going to go over there and do what I was trained to do. Um, which I mean, let's be real here, is to take the fight to the enemy and, you know, being prepared to, you know, take lives and protect your people. Um, and that has affected different people that I've met in different ways, especially when it didn't play out the way that they expected to.

Now, I'm just gonna I'm gonna one draw out an observation that I'm seeing from you, and then two, kind of draw see about a parallel here.

Okay. one I it seems to me and just in the time that I've known you that you're a you're a very flexible person and a like someone who maybe doesn't have expectations or I should say maybe you're very open-minded in the way that you approach the world. Um I don't know when that started or where that happened or where that came from but that's my observation. I could be wrong. The other piece of that though being like I have met people like I said who's been on the podcast where they didn't go and deploy in the way that they thought they were going to and it really affected them deeply, right?

Like that was their trauma. I'm curious to know how that affected you going in there and having to shift a mindset and then if you think that your ability to be flexible and open-minded has played a role in how it has affected you.

Troy: It's a great question and rather observant of you. So, um yeah, I'm I try to see the opportunity and everything. So, I'm an optimist. I'm an entrepreneur. like you find, you know,

the benefit in even the shittiest days.

PJ: Absolutely.

Troy: There's there's always a silver lining if you're willing to put the put forth the effort to try to find it. So, you know, I I think I've had some success there. You know, you kind of make your own luck when you orient in that direction versus a very rigid view. You the answer could be no and that's the end of your day, right? It's not for me, right? So, you know, we got some time, right?

— We've got some time. Let me have

Troy: Let me let let me go back a little bit more to tell you some more of the story about about how we were mobilizing to go.

So, you know, I the this anti-tank unit, it's a middle it's 2008. We're not shooting tanks anymore, right? So, at the brigade and we're a brigade separate company. I'm not under a battalion, right? So, it's this special special unit available to do things at the direction of the brigade commander or or the S3 in the original design of the Stryker unit. So, they're trying to figure out how do we employ this unit to be most effective for the footprint and the mission that we were having over there.

And you know they went on the PDSS and looked at what the unit ahead of us was doing because we were you know relief in place and taking over the territory

and they had organized that unit uh by actually pushing all of the anti-tank units out as enablers to the battalions and then reconstituting the flag pole of that organization as like a special specialized like almost special operations unit at the brigade level. M

it was time-sensitive targeting. It was tactical site exploitation. It was the PSD for the brigade commander. So when I was going through the trainup, I lost my guys. Uh I gained an infantry pat uh platoon from another company. I gained uh a unit to retool from the CAV squadron. was the the CBRN platoon to configure them as tactical site exploitation. Uh so the infantry platoon became the TST, the type sensitive targeting. So it's like all of this.

So I'm never done special operations. I'm more of the you know I'm the company commander. So trying to enable them to perform their tasks. I'm not in each of those but understanding how to deploy those. Uh, I got a crash course to go out to Fort Bliss to work with the Asymmetric Warfare Group.

PJ: Oh, cool.

Troy: Uh, and you know, we practiced with SEAL Team 10 on a mission during our JRTC rotation. It's just mind-blowing opportunities.

Yeah. But I'm leaving the states thinking I'm going over for a deployment where I'm going to be leveraging this hybrid special operationsesque uh force for the brigade commander. They signed the security agreement at the end of December. I get in there, I have no mission for like six weeks.

PJ: Wow.

Troy: Because they're like, "Well, we can't actually execute that way anymore. So, just sit tight

and we'll figure out what we're going to do with you."

Yeah. And so mission change, mission change, mission change. Like I was assigned to every battalion from the beginning of that train up to the end. So maintaining that flexibility and looking for those opportunities and presenting myself and my unit in whatever configuration that it was being given as this is what we can do for you

uh was the orientation. So if I went in there was like with what we started with I wouldn't have gotten anywhere.

PJ: Yeah. It sounds like you also had kind of like a a service mindset there too of like how can I be of service to you

when you have that kind of specialty enabler like you're you're you're not a straight infantry unit that has like this is your territory you know you are to close with and destroy the enemy. It's like no no you're bringing the special skill set or tool set.

Yeah. in order to enable a larger unit in order to accomplish that mission.

Troy: Right. Right.

Uh you've got they don't necessarily know it's like you you're an aviator. So I get on the horn, you know, for CAS and I'm telling you what to bring. No, no, I'm telling you the target,

right? You're figuring same kind of concept.

PJ: Yeah. Yeah.

Troy: Yeah.

PJ: No, that's really cool. Um, I want to tell I wanna I want to put a pin in that because I think there's a lot of a lot of illustration I think to be had in that mindset. Um, and I want to go down that rabbit hole, but I'm going to pause there for a second. So, you did 20 years now and you're you became a major, right? Um, I was not in the guard or reserves, right? So, my lens is very active duty focused. For someone who was there, and I know you had a lot of active duty time, you said, right?

Troy: Nine years.

PJ: So, nine years active. What were you doing

else?

Troy: Yeah, great question. depending on the month. There's a lot of military time while also trying to hold down a job and to advance a civilian career. You know, I mean, it was mutually reinforcing for a little while.

Uh I was highly focused on getting uh through OCS. So in in those early early days, so after I decided man, I got to put all this in sequence. So like 2003, the year war started, I said I want to go to OCS. I don't have my degree, but I'm in college at West Chester, so I got to take time off to go to OCS, to go to OBC, and still get my degree done. And I've got obligations to get those things done in time. My first job out of college, uh, was a another veteran that I didn't, this is interesting story, another veteran, didn't know.

Um, so trying to find how do I apply that? I think that's a good skill set. See if I can help myself get in get a job. So there's this guy Brian Dunn

who uh you probably know.

PJ: Yeah, maybe

Troy: he's he's in the region. Okay.

He also went through the vet fellowship program.

PJ: Oh, cool.

Troy: Recently, so it's like small world how these things kind of interact.

But he was doing some recruiting and so he found this other guy who's also a veteran working for DHL Express.

Uh so I got a job in logistics as a field service supervisor out of Bristol,

working for a guy named Rob McCrae. Hold on to that because that'll be that'll come back around also. Uh so I started that was my first job working with uh the Teamsters

at DH

for last last uh last mile delivery for express packages. Yeah, that was an experience.

So there about a year and then got called up for Primote.

So I had one year of civilian post uh graduate work right in an entry- level job. I got bought a house, got married, deployed, and then while I was overseas on that ICT deployment, uh DHL reorganized the company which enabled them to uh remove my job. So it gave me an opportunity with uh there's like this other logistics element that was part of the overall umbrella for less money on the other side of the country which was clearly like

PJ: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

trying to force you out.

Troy: Yeah. So yeah, coming in off of a combat patrol, I got my mail and I'm like, you got to kid me. So, I went home unemployed after my Iraq tour and I went back to bartending and doing like odd jobs and stuff. And then a fellow company commander, a guy who was on that 2003 deployment, Pete Mueller, who worked for Greencastle, and he was getting hired by a client and said, "Hey, you still looking for something?" And I said, I mean, initially I'm like, no, I'm good. But I was like, you know what? Yeah. Like I'm trying to make my own way, but like that pride that you have,

PJ: of course.

Troy: Right.

Um, so I'm like, yeah, sure. So I get an interview. I think I bomb it. They uh they were like, "You did good. Can you start tomorrow?" And I'm like, "Yeah." So signed the offer. So I went to start at Green Castle as an associate

in 2010. So I got back in 2009.

A year of like

I'll figure it out,

you know, and getting back off of combat tours, you know, all sorts of transition and wasn't always in a good place.

Um, but you know, things started looking up and I took to consulting with that kind of open mind and like what can we get into, what can I do? Um it it it stuck right so I did well quickly again no model of what's a consult I don't know we just what do you need done

PJ: which is probably a good model to have

Troy: it wasn't like here's the book that I have and we're going to apply the doctrine in order was like what are you trying to solve and how do you want it to look and who am I going to talk to to get there and let's just go and So, uh, John Gransky,

PJ: Mhm.

Troy: was a director at Green Castle at the time, and he was my direct supervisor, but he was not on site. He was on another project. So, I was just kind of that, again, that like remote company commander off doing something else with just a, you know, kind of support,

right, direction.

If I needed something, I could call him, but, you know, I'm sending SITREPs like the end of the week, like, hey, this is kind of what we did. It's kind of what next week's going to look like. So, you know, that went really well and it grew and it evolved. Soon I started uh interviewing folks for the company. Um, you know, moving up. Um, yeah. So, I went from associate to management consultant to senior consultant to director to executive director to CO. Yeah.

PJ: So, something I guess that you're you're illustrating here which is interesting to me because again I'm I'm active duty, right? So that's my lens is transition in a guard or reserve world is almost constant.

Troy: It's a given. It's a given. People don't understand this. I didn't I didn't have an expectation of it either.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: Like the sheer magnitude of what they what they do in compared to like active duties. like you're on a base, you know, you're going out to the field, you're coming back, you know, you're going to classes, like but it's all kind of in the same space all the time and then there's a deployment and there's this big massive effort and you get everything up

and the guard, you know, you're scattered across right the state to start with.

You get a drill weekend, you got to show up the probably the night prior, get all your equipment, check everybody in like you got everything. You've got to deploy to your training site, you know, with an ADVON, you know, figure out where all your people are going, do all the coordination to get the training, then conduct the training, then consolidate and redeploy before you can go home all in a weekend.

And sometimes it's 100 [snorts] miles in a convoy over over the road. Like, it's nuts. But like

— that mobility Yeah. that capabil like

Troy: Yeah. you're always kind of like a what are we doing next, right?

PJ: That's a special skill because what you're illustrating is is flexibility, which it tends to be the theme today. Um, you know, like the resourcefulness and the flexibility that you're able to kind of make happen. That probably really sets you up for success in Greencastle because you already illustrated here like I'm a problem solver.

Forget the consultant or any of that stuff. Like my I'm a problem solver. Tell me what the end goal is, I'll get you there. That's right.

Which I do actually think is a superpower for I think veterans in general. You know, the whole idea of like this is commander intent.

Troy: Just go do

don't tell me how. Um I always find it funny like you don't want to know how.

PJ: Right. Exactly. Like the sergeant that's like do you really want to know how? You don't want to know how. Um but but I think that there's such a superpower that sometimes is forgotten about that like hey you have this this is actually something you learned and it's not something that you can easily put your finger on but you have it you it was trained into you. It's something we know.

Troy: Yeah. You know it's it's something that the civilian world doesn't even fathom is possible.

PJ: Yes.

Troy: Especially for, you know, guys and gals that are, you know, youthful,

right? To have that kind of capability and experience. There's so much uh like you look for the gray beards to have the wisdom to be able to

PJ: to pull those things together

Troy: to be able to pull that kind of stuff together or to have that um multi-domain experience to synergize a solution quickly.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: They don't put the faith in younger leaders in order to do that. They don't know that damn near every uh NCO and you know junior military officer has done that.

PJ: Yes.

Troy: Uh in in space. So that's one of the conflicts I think that a lot of folks have coming back is like you were able to do amazing things in austere environments with limited guidance.

Yeah. And then the best opportunity you can get is this, you know, marginalized sheet of paper that says, "Here's your cubicle. Here you're going to work with those people over there. Don't don't be too out."

PJ: Right.

Troy: When they run circles, if they were just given the opportunity, a little bit of support and resources.

PJ: Yeah. Yeah.

Troy: To go and do it.

PJ: Well, I think a base of that too and and this is something I can go into later, but like like what we're doing at Prize, right, is the idea that like we're losing a few things that we had like a lot of in the military. And one of the the pieces there that I think is missed overnight that we don't often talk about is this idea that like we had certainty in just like it it was it was second nature. Like we had we knew where to be somewhere, what to wear, how to stand, how to talk.

You know, you were given your dental appointments. You were given all of the stuff, your your housing, your food, everything. It's there. You don't even have to think about it. Health insurance. It's all there. And you get out and all of that is gone overnight. And by the way, that's our most basic human need. Yeah.

Is safety, security, certainty, however you want to call it.

Troy: Maslow's hierarchy, right?

PJ: That's right. It is the base of that triangle. So when we get out that's gone. So that ability for us to operate in a you know like here is commander's intent go execute was I think I don't want to say easier but it was um it was more natural because we had that basic human need handled right but now we're going out into the civilian world and it is there but it's elusive right there's like 45,000 just different nonprofits alone in the space which can provide a lot of this right with the VA but the

Troy: you got to make Make it your own. You got to make it your own. You got to own it, right?

If you're spinning cycles in your head worrying about where you're going to sleep tonight or where the meal's going to come from or you like once those things are baked, you can like it's like a it's like a ladder that pyramid, right?

You can't work on, you know, belonging when you're still worried about security.

PJ: Absolutely.

Troy: Right. You got to you got to solve those things and then, you know, keep moving.

PJ: Exactly that.

Yeah. And and the the interesting thing though that I think is the transition to really happen and I think you know this is that it doesn't come from out there or in the military it did.

Troy: Right.

PJ: It has to come from in

Troy: Yeah. That's that's quite a shift.

PJ: Right. It is quite a shift. Um, but I love that you're illustrating, and I didn't I guess I didn't really think about this, is that that is almost constant when you're in the guard because you may go back and forth from being active to being, you know, guard, you know, warrior.

Troy: How many employers are out there that can tolerate that? I mean like yeah

the

the optempo has slowed down a little bit right since the Global War on Terror

but you know I was thankful for a company like Greencastle

that was founded by Guardsman

understood that that was forward in the design of the company and the staffing it's like we understand it's like they don't want you to go I mean I remember having a conversation with one of the partners at one point it's like you know at what point are you going to

focus on your you know your main livelihood ood versus you it's like I got it but it's like

it's it's a they're mutually reh supportive right for sure for for a little while

and there's a continuum there.

PJ: So let's let's fast forward here. Um you so you did 21 years you are now retiring out of Kuwait

and you come from a deployment to the wonderful world that we live in today.

Troy: Yeah.

PJ: Um how was that

coming back uh from you know the the last one the Kuwait one? Yeah,

Troy: man. I couldn't wait.

PJ: And into retirement.

Troy: Couldn't wait to get back.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: Yeah. No, I I I uh I left, you know, being uh you know, a director at Green Castle and working at high levels in Fortune 500 companies solving really complex problems. Uh, so I had didn't realize this, but in like the the military to civilian culture, I was operating day-to-day at a high at a higher echelon than my rank allowed me in the military,

PJ: I'm sure.

Troy: So that deployment was a bit of frustration for me because, you know, yeah, I was a major, if I was a major in division headquarters at ARCENT, like

I was not operating at my level.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: So that was frustrating. I was I had good time there,

you know, could

but I was I was done, right?

PJ: Got you.

Troy: I'm like I finally reached a point that's like, you know, when I when I joined, you know, when I went to OCS, I'm like, oh yeah, I had stars in my eyes like I could do it, right?

Um it just they move at different paces, right? I mean, at the time, yeah, that was an aspiration, but you know, getting through it, you know, going to or command general staff, like starting to do that, I'm like, it's just a lot to do all of those things

and to still serve yourself and your family and everything else.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: Like, kudos to the guys that some of the company commanders I serve with in Iraq are pinning O-6 right now.

PJ: Are they? Yeah.

Wow.

Troy: My uh

PJ: Okay, cool.

Troy: my my company commander that sent me to OCS uh Andy O'Connor if you're watching uh is up for one star right now.

PJ: That's amazing.

Troy: It's awesome.

PJ: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's funny too as I look back at like all the people that were my peers and they're like commanders and you know um like p like lieutenant colonels and stuff like that. I'm like what?

Like that would be me right now.

Troy: Yeah.

PJ: Um and I often joke that like my biggest achievement in the military was I never had to be major. Um I never had to be a field grade officer. Anyway,

Troy: lucky you.

PJ: You're lucky me. Um, but okay. So, I'm I'm curious to know though, like what was there a what did what did it do to your psyche coming back from like that deployment especially not maybe being treated or or

Troy: it was very different. Right. So, like at that time, you know, I was I was married. I had my career was was going going places.

PJ: Green Castle.

Troy: Yeah.

Yeah. Uh, you know, I had approached the senior partner before I left about maybe buying in as an owner. Um, he's like, "You should deploy, you know, get your retirement like things to work out when you get back." Like, yeah, it's like just a very supportive environment. I had kids, right? So, deploying with kids is a totally different thing.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: Um,

yeah. I

It was It was the Swan song. It was okay. Yeah. So, do I miss uh putting on a uniform? Do I miss the camaraderie? Absolutely. Um I don't miss any of the

I mean, um Yep.

But you need a little bit of that in order to, you know, give you that grit and challenge in order to overcome things. But,

uh you could just look around, you could find some of that, too, you know, out in the civilian world.

PJ: 100%. Um, but what what was what was it for you like coming back from that? Did you just jump in and it was kind of ain't no thing. I now it's a Tuesday.

Troy: Yeah. No, that one that one Yeah. I mean it wasn't the Iraq deployment,

different story. Coming back from Kuwait, I was like, "All right, let's

PJ: So, wait, how did you navigate that then?" Because there's there's obviously a gap in time and I I get it. Combat deployment, you come back. How did you navigate the challenges that you faced coming back from that one Iraq one?

Troy: Uh poorly.

PJ: Sure.

Troy: Uh you know they've gotten better I think at addressing some of the tension. We went through the screenings and everything. You had the conversation. You're sitting around a room talking about your experience and all that. Um and of course I'm like I'm fine, whatever. Not of course not realizing.

Yeah. So, you know, we've got two weeks of decompression time in Fort Dix and then you're you're right back at it. So, uh my wife and I, you know, newly wed still just like we got married right before I I deployed. We got uh like a long weekend down in Ocean City, Maryland. Could end the Fen weekend or whatever. But yeah, you know, it'll be great. I couldn't walk across the street. I was still like on.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: So, it's not like super big highrises. The Fenwick, you down there Fenwick and I, I think it's like eight floors or whatever. There's wide street sidewalk and then there's like beachfront hotels and things. Um, just going out to go to the 7-Eleven, grab a six-pack. I got halfway across the sidewalk and a screen door on like the fourth floor of this, you know, beachfront condo thing slams shut and I'm just like

I don't I'm having a panic attack.

I'm naked. I don't have a weapon. Uh, and I don't really remember how I got back into the my my room and I'm like, bye. I need a minute, you know. Um, so that heightened um, you know, adrenalinefueled like it takes a long time for that stuff to

PJ: Sure.

Troy: calm down.

PJ: Mhm.

Troy: And I drank too much.

PJ: Yeah. Sure.

Troy: That uh that was how I coped.

I was angry. I was furious with my fellow Americans for taking for granted what they had, not realizing what the rest of the world's going through, what it looks like.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: Um, it took me a while to to work through that stuff.

PJ: And how did you lean on like any resources, any programs? Was it

Troy: I went to the I went to the VA. Yeah.

And they told me I was fine.

PJ: Of course. Yeah. I think they're getting better about that.

Troy: I think they are too.

PJ: But like, so how did how did you handle it then? You just said, "Okay, I guess I'm okay."

Troy: Uh, you know, I I I pulled myself through it.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: And, you know, a couple of friends that, uh, you know, at certain times were were there to help me or keep me from getting arrested, you know, at the right times.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: Uh, you know, Yeah. I mean, you're pushing boundaries. So, thanks, guys.

PJ: Well, and and I appreciate that. But I think that you're if you if if I may like I think you're touching on the idea of community and I know that's been very important to you outside of things. So I guess again just what I know about you and like in our experience of knowing one another is you are very network and community oriented.

So uh I mean tell me if I'm wrong at that time were were you still as focused on network and community and what did that play in your own success

Troy: at that time? I was not I was I was you know

pretty insular

just worried about security right worried about putting food on the table.

PJ: So how did you make that shift?

Was it that when your friend reached out and said Greencastle?

Troy: It is.

PJ: So it is community.

Troy: It is I mean but I wasn't oriented then.

PJ: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Troy: Right. I would my my first inclination was I'm fine,

PJ: right?

Troy: I'll figure it out. Right. I'm doing my own thing. I'm like buying like government surplus, you know, gaylords full of whatever, sorting it out and selling it on eBay. Like this is what I'm going to do, right? And he's like,

so if you're looking for something try so so it worked and then I I found a community of folks that uh you know were similar

in Green Castle

and I found that I could take those skills that weren't being recognized by others and put them to good use. So now it's activating. Now I see there's a pathway. Now I recognize how to connect that back with other people and it just kind of blossomed.

— Uh and thank you.

— Yeah.

PJ: Um I agree with you. I think that that's that's something very very much so needed and and challenging for a lot of people to just like come to grips with that like oh I need to actually rely on someone else. However, when we were in the military and we were kicking down doors or whatever it may have been, you know, my my wingman, like I would never go out without a wingman.

Troy: Right.

PJ: Right. Like you you have to rely on they train us to do this. It's not get back and now you're on your own. That that is not a thing.

Right. So I am curious like if someone is getting out today

and they're dealing with that heightened you know uh you know fight or flight you know that sort of mechanism and they they want to be like I am on my own I got this I I handle it and a friend reaches out like what advice do you have to that person

leveraging your own experience to overcome that

Troy: you got to kind of pre-plan for it and you know I know that they talked a little bit about these things it falls on deaf ears you don't think about it right But you got to have your you got to have your battle buddy. You got to have your support network. Uh you got to have strong relationships with your family. Uh because you're going to test them.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: When you're going through it.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: And if it's fragile, it's going to break and you're going to go you're going to go deeper into whatever you're going through.

So you got to have you got to have a good support system.

PJ: What if you don't?

Troy: and you're going to have to find it or you know you're going to have some rough days. It's just is what it is. You can't do it alone,

PJ: right?

Troy: This I think I mean you can try

but you don't have to.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: Right. Especially in like this community. Yes. Right. In the greater Philadelphia area like

the veterans network here is just fantastic.

PJ: I completely agree. I I don't want to leave this just yet. I am curious to know if you have any insight for developing that mindset because it seems to me like this may have been a mindset that you have had instilled in you at some point as a child. I don't know

but you you have this open um flexible uh resourceful mindset that I think may tell me if I'm wrong but may have let let you even be open to that person who gave you the knowledge branch. Right. I I know that's not the case for everyone.

Troy: Yeah.

PJ: So, how how would you go about maybe helping someone or guiding them into developing that sort of mindset?

Troy: It's a good question. Um, you got to have to discover it for yourself, but you know, you could be told like the story's not written,

PJ: right?

Troy: Yeah. you might have been impressed upon about obligations or expectations for your life. And you know, I refer those to kind of like military doctrine. It's a guide, right? And you can take it or leave it, but it might not be the thing you need in order to

get to the next objective, right?

Doctrine and expectations are set by other people. you are the only one going through your experience.

So if you're willing, if if you want to succeed, if you want to live and go through it, right, and go to the next level, then you've got to find within you and around you the ways to get through that stuff. It might not come out the way you intend. You might not achieve it in the way that you thought you were going to, but as long as you've got the perseverance to see it through, to get out of bed to, you know, lace up your boots, I'd say shave, but I don't.

PJ: Just face shave your head.

Troy: That's true.

PJ: Okay.

Troy: Just face the music every day.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: And go and get it done. Right.

You'll you'll find that opportunities are there. And as if you as long as you're not rigid in how

or what you're open to.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: There's opportunities everywhere.

PJ: Yes.

Troy: And if somebody offers to help, you know, put it through the lens of what that it might be good, right? It, you know, don't be so prideful that, you know, you can't accept charity or that they don't understand. And they might not. just give it a chance and you know it maybe it's a waste of time but you won't know unless you you let it breathe a little bit.

PJ: Yeah. I've heard that as a theme a few times in in people that I've talked to of like the the idea that what you said just be open to it because even if it is not necessarily the right fit there's likely if you really try and I think you have a quote here check your ego at the door of

pull maybe that side of you which is hard

by the way especially if you are in a a fight or flight

right because ego is really just meant to protect you right but set that aside and I'll go okay I am not uh I think the term was uh oh Ben I'm sorry if I screw this up but um chronically unique I think was the term he used

in in that like they can't help me because I was this and you were that right

right but setting that aside of maybe maybe just maybe there is a piece a nugget a tiny little piece in here that they have experienced that could potentially be useful for me.

It might take some sifting.

Troy: Sure.

PJ: But this is the whole idea of the diamond in the rough.

You know, how do I now sift through it to pull that one gold nugget out of the silt that I get

— could change your entire life.

— That could change your entire life trajectory. But it's that one tiny little idea and being open to the whole to find the little

Troy: go going so on that point going back to that time after my you know Iraq deployment right I had this rigid thought in my mind of who I was I was just a company commander in a combat zone I was a land owner I like

we I can do anything

right I I had to manage all sorts of very complex problems this running infrastructure projects with NGOs and with the Iraqis and I've got an Iraqi army battalion assigned to me that I'm supposed to be develop like all this crazy stuff and I come back I got no job.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: Right.

In my mind right at that time the ego about it.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: It's like I should be I should be running a company.

They should be knocking my door down to give me that opportunity. Yeah. And I know a lot of vets that come out of the military. I was I was an O-4. I was an O-5. I was an O-6. I can, you know, correlate, you know, correlating that kind of experience. I'm going to step in and I'm going to I'm going to run a division in a fortune. The you are. Yeah.

PJ: Right.

Yeah. Yeah.

Troy: No, you're not. Because you don't know anything about that business, that culture, the way those things. It's like you got to reframe and start over. You got to find that opportunity.

I couldn't see it. M

and it took a friend of mine to give me that opportunity. I didn't know what a cons what's a consultant.

No idea.

PJ: Yeah. Yeah.

Troy: Right. But lo and behold, I found a connection there. Yeah.

And it changed my life trajectory.

PJ: So, fast forwarding to today, the Troy that's sitting in front of me today.

Troy: Sure.

PJ: You are um I'm Please don't let me butcher the titles here. Maybe I'll just look. You um Yeah. So you are a you're at the Union League. Um and what's the name of the program? It's veteran.

Troy: So it's the Veterans Fellowship Program sponsored by the Business Leadership Forum of the Union League.

PJ: Okay.

You run VXL.

Troy: Yeah. That's my company.

PJ: That's your company. And and tell me if I'm wrong, but at least when we were doing Bunker Labs, it was you were also geared towards helping place veterans in more executive type roles.

Troy: So that's a piece of the VXL. piece of VXL

VXL's formula.

PJ: Okay.

Troy: So, yeah, there's a couple things there and I'll I'll kind of thread it together. So,

VXL, you know, acronym, you know, veteran executive leadership is focused on helping military veterans find greater opportunities, but really through entrepreneurship, through acquisition,

and then other shared services, things that kind of bolt on and support it. So, I have a portfolio of companies. I've got an HVAC service company, Sigman Force Air Systems in Hanover. I've got Schaefer Mechanical Services Incorporated, a plumbing mechanical contractor for multif family highrises and do work all throughout Maryland. Uh, blending those together into one new entity. But the model of VXL is to find veterans that have the capacity and the desire to be more than what they are today or to become a business owner.

Maybe they don't have the money. Maybe they don't have the experience. Maybe they're looking for that kind of like battalion headquarters cover in order to help them do it or to work with a partner in order to make that leap. And that's what VXL is designed to do.

Okay. And what's your framework there? How do you how do you one identify the right person, help mold them and get them to where they want to be and then what's the handoff point?

Yeah. So there it's a mix. It depends. I mean it's messy. Every every vet is a little bit different. They have different risk tolerances. They have different resources themselves. So we've got to first identify how ready they are and for what and in what industry are you looking for? And then it's finding a business that matches that's at the stage that it's time to exit. And so you've got to find so people find me. I'm not out recruiting for entrepreneurs, but those that I interact with and there's there's a few um I'm working with a couple right now to try to find things and work through their search in order to find a business for them to acquire.

Sure. I might take a small percentage of that. VXL might take a role in back office support or other shared services or it could just be like an arms length, you know, transaction than just some mentoring and, you know, support. Every deal and every vet, every entrepreneur has different a different mix. But all of those things that flexibility, right? It's like I kind of know what you're going to need, but you don't know that. And so,

let me walk you through it a bit. Uh, and you know, value for value, but the whole goal is that you can you can succeed with that, you know, in the long term. Um there was I I would this is I'm going to steal this quote from uh the old senior partner at Green Castle, Celwyn Evans. He said this, you know, stuck with me. He's like, I'd rather be a smaller uh percentage owner of something much bigger

than the 100% owner of something much smaller.

PJ: Yeah, agreed.

That makes sense.

Troy: And so it's the same kind of concept here. It's like, you know, my portfolio companies I own right now, but I'll take a minority share of a hundred other veterans businesses to build an ecosystem that supports each other. Absolutely. and sees them have the generational wealth. And to see those community businesses preserved uh versus them closing because they don't have a plan or a traditional private equity coming in and harvesting what's there and destroying the value that's built. You know, they're not all that way, but that's the tip.

There's that fear, right, every time. So, there's a way. It takes more to do. Uh, I'm probably leaving some money on the table in the approach, but I think it's a good cause.

PJ: Well, to have if you ever read Seven Habits, Highly Effective People.

Troy: Yeah. Covered it.

PJ: Yeah.

How he describes a win-win situation. I love that what you're describing here is you've created an ecosystem of win-win situations. And I think that the one of the things that's near and dear to a lot of our hearts as as veterans, whether we want to admit it or not, or whether we, you know, the journey takes us there or not, is that at the heart of it all, we are about service. It's in the name, right? I think I've said those on almost every podcast at this point, but like we are service members.

Yeah. Right. And if you can use your resourcefulness, your flexibility, your open-mindedness, finding those opportunities, creating those opportunities to not only serve the community, but serve yourself in the process and make that a a machine, to make that a a cohesive picture, to me that's like to me and my value system,

Troy: it's the ultimate win.

PJ: That is the ultimate win. Um, I would love to know from you first off, someone is getting out today, just let's just go generic because you know there's lots of different things that could be affecting a person, but someone is getting out today. What would be the number one piece of advice that you are giving them um and maybe their family in order to navigate like the transition?

Troy: Yeah. number one thing that I would say for someone getting out is find the community connection with a group that has some interest and there there are so many of them. I think you said there's like 40,000 veteran support organizations out there.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: Uh you can find one that's got that's close to you that's got some kind of mutual interest to just go get involved. just go hang with people that you're familiar with uh from a you know camaraderie perspective or from a special interest and just be around them. That'll help, right? And from just relating to people, right? Like

the vet fellowship program that we run down at the league, you build greater relationships. You share your stories.

Uh you learn about what people are going through or what they're looking for. And you know, maybe you've got something in your network that can help one of those guys and that vice versa, right? But it starts with that. Um, you know, take a risk and, you know, just show up, say hi, offer something or just go and have a cup of coffee a couple of times before you're comfortable speaking up. Either way, you just you got to be a part of it.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: If you don't, you know,

you might get through it. It's going to be harder. Just It doesn't have to be.

PJ: Yeah, I I completely agree. I think that a lot of the the communities that I've seen in and around this area meeting you and like uh you know I went to the the veteran um entrepreneur um leadership program that you have a couple days or a couple of days um I guess more than a couple days but like a few weeks back like that was a very awesome experience you know getting to see people that I know at this point but also meeting a lot that you can tell care about even even my success in the five minutes that I talked to them

was really really cool and I think that that's something that is very common in this community is that we we do care about the success of other people. And it may not always feel that way, but it's out there. It exists. It's 100% real. So, letting our souls be open to that, I think, is is huge.

What's your favorite book?

Troy: My favorite book of all time is hands down Without Remorse by Tom Clancy.

PJ: Without Remorse. Interesting. Why,

man?

Troy: Uh Clark, that character. It's just so

we we're talking about the community, right?

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: That's a guy that was doing it on his own, right? You know,

— like shooter like

Troy: Yeah, I know. Yeah. Yeah. He was uh uh you know resilient, multi-skilled, but you know he had a sense of justice that he was going to you know defend uh those that couldn't defend themselves and to kind of you know fly the flag even though it's a lot of covert ops but he was he was an enforcer and he was

he was seeing it through. So, activates all those old, you know.

— Well, five, right?

— I think

— great book.

PJ: I I'm going to have to check that out.

Troy: I I don't know if they made a movie, but if they did, I'm sure it didn't do it justice.

PJ: No, I I'm sure not. I don't know how many are there many Tom Clancy movies.

Troy: The Hunt for Red October Fears.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: Patriot Games.

PJ: Interesting. I guess I didn't realize that.

I'm more of a I tend to read more non-fiction.

Troy: Um I could tell.

Yeah. Yeah. Smart guy.

PJ: Well, thank you. Um, the uh I I should read more fiction actually. I really should.

Troy: I I just read

PJ: be more of a fun person.

Troy: I mean, I just read my first fiction book like two weeks ago for the first time in like years.

PJ: Really?

Troy: Just entrepreneur pace, you know?

PJ: I get it. I get it.

Troy: It's a Dan Brown book. It was pretty good.

PJ: Oh, yeah. Which one?

Troy: Secret of Secrets.

PJ: Oh. Oh, you know, I've heard good things about that one.

Troy: It was good. It was

PJ: Yeah, I I really enjoyed um Oh, What was the name of like his most popular one?

Troy: The Da Vinci.

PJ: Thank you. Wow. Um, I enjoyed that one. That was a great read.

Troy: So, you know, you know how you read fiction, right? And things that have been movies that way. It's like, all right, you already know the characters kind of have that voice. You're visualizing it, going through it.

So, the whole time I'm reading this book, the character uh uh Robert Langdon, Tom Hanks from Da Vinci Code. So, I read the whole thing and it's great. I was like, okay. I wonder if they're going to make this one into a movie. They're like, no, it's going to be a series and it's not going to be Hanks. Like, what? Great. all these expectations. It's like ah be like reading it again

PJ: and you know you have used the word expectations numerous times in this in this conversation and I'm glad you did because expectations are a very interesting thing in in my mind.

Troy: Double-edged sword.

PJ: It's a double-edged sword.

I would argue that most if not all suffering in the world comes from expectations not meeting reality. like you have a blueprint, you have an idea of how things should be and reality isn't it. So, we fret over it in whatever way, shape or form. And something that has served me in in my journey after the the military is having actually very low expectations, but having high goals and high standards.

Troy: I'm with you. You know, nothing like a tour in any service to lower your expectations, right? But yeah, I mean you're able to achieve like you know daytoday in the military, right? Like it could be the worst of like you could just be like I can't believe how stupid this is, right? But then a moment later and you're doing amazing things that nobody could imagine, right?

It's like long stretches of boredom and really short moments of hyperactivity that you'll never forget.

PJ: Absolutely. Well, but I think to relate this, it's a funny thing to say, right? of like I have really low expectations. But and and I say this to some people and they look at me like what? But here's the thing, right? Hear me out. If you have low expectations, meaning like I go into a situation is like I'm not married to the outcome. Like whatever happens happens. I have a desire. I I I have a goal like how I want the outcome to be, but I'm not attached to it in any way, shape, or form.

I don't expect the outcome that I want. What this allows is for a couple things. one, when it doesn't go my way, which inevitably something is not going to go my way,

I can be like kind of happy about it because things were positive.

Troy: Yeah.

PJ: But if things don't go my way or things do go my way,

then now I have a positive gap of an expectation here. Right now things went well and I can be really really excited about it. So I have a floor that's very low and I'm above that floor almost in every scenario.

Troy: Yeah. So you don't want your expectations to be too low. Right. Right. But just low enough that every day is a win.

PJ: Well, but I guess what I'm getting at though is is instead of having the expectations be what I have so high on the other hand, it's like my goals are very high.

Troy: If you had expectations here, you know, the branches of opportunities that you probably closed off because they're below a starting point.

PJ: Yes.

Troy: You know, further behind where you want to start.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: If you I think we're saying the same thing, right? Like in order to take advantage of or to be open to, you know, all of those opportunities, you got to be willing to take on a little more risk,

lower your expectations.

PJ: That's exactly right. And and I think the flip there too and this is where I I start to kind of tease this apart is my standards are very high because if I keep the standards and habits that I've developed within myself, my discipline or whatever it may be very high, the likelihood of the outcomes that I want happening are much greater. So even though the expectation is low, what I'm shooting toward is very high and I'm holding myself towards the science

of executing on that outcome which is more likely to occur in that in that uh so I take control over what I can take control over.

— Really short way of saying that.

PJ: Um do you have a favorite podcast? [snorts]

Troy: Obviously.

PJ: Yeah, I know, right?

Troy: Uh the All-In podcast is all in

got to be my favorite.

PJ: That's a good one.

That's fantastic.

Troy: Okay. So, I'll probably listen to the latest one on the way way back home. About an hour long.

PJ: Mhm.

Troy: Uh yeah, I mean just brilliant uh brilliant folks involved there. Always talking about what's new and it's, you know, geopolitics, it's technology, it's investing,

um they're all gamblers, so they're open to risk, you know.

PJ: Yeah, for sure.

Troy: Have you Have you taken that in?

PJ: Yeah. Oh, yeah. I I enjoy that podcast.

Troy: What's your favorite?

PJ: So, my favorite these days is is probably a mix. I I really enjoy Diary of a CEO. Um, and I and I like it because, well, one, I think he asks great questions, but but also he he's very open-minded and he tends to bring people on that really just challenge my own thinking. Um, uh, I really enjoy, and this is probably going to like some people like, what? Um, Tom Bilyeu and Impact Theory. He I used to really enjoy his first ones because he would bring on a lot of people that I I enjoy like, you know, Tony Robbins and and a lot of a lot of folks like that that um David Goggins that really stretched, you know, my thinking and and helping me on my journey.

But now he he's kind of way off in left field and he's like talking to people about like simulation theory and like all of this stuff which I find really fascinating. So I just I don't know. That's another one. Um, I also really really like uh Jay Shetty and and I like Jay Shetty because this is another one that really just challenges my own thinking because he'll have people on that earlier in my life I would have been like, "Oh god, I want nothing to do with that person." Like Paris Hilton or something like that.

But what it forces me to do is I have that initial thought and I go, "Now you must listen to it."

You know, because you had that thought, now you must listen to it. And I find that it's really allowed me to one become a more like compassionate person, but also really challenged me to to think differently, you know, really open up my mind to just different stories and experiences in the world that I never would have obviously been open to before and be surprised actually, you know.

I don't know.

Troy: Nice.

PJ: That's what I would say about my favorites. How can people get a hold of you?

Troy: Um, so you can go to my website, veteran executive leadership. Uh, hit me up on LinkedIn. Um, I'm on there a lot, so can answer through there or through the website.

PJ: Yeah.

Troy: Uh, just shoot me an email.

Troy veteranexecutiveleadership.com. Um, and if there's something that you're thinking about, uh, you know, moving into, you know, starting a business, buying a business, you don't know where to start, we'll have a conversation, right? It's like there's don't be afraid like we'll figure it out or not or you know I can refer you to somebody else you know if I'm not in an area that I can work with you know I've got a pretty good network you know

PJ: a very well-connected gentleman here. Um

Troy: thanks.

PJ: Is there anything you want to leave the audience with?

Troy: Uh stay frosty.

PJ: Stay frosty. Uh well hey thank you for stopping by. Thank you for stopping by. I do appreciate you.

Troy: Thanks. Hey, I got something for you.

PJ: You got something for me?

Troy: Yeah.

PJ: Oh, snap. Look at that. There you go.

Thank you. I appreciate that. You

Troy: bet.

PJ: Um, hey, as always, please like, subscribe. If you have any sort of feedback, you know, if if you want to bash this guy, just kidding. If there's if there's anything that you know, you have feedback on like the way we shot this, questions, people that you want to see in the show, please drop it below. We would love to see that. Also, the Prize platform is launching again on the 4th of July. It is a completely different platform now. I really invite you to come by and check it out.

And please let me know what sucks. I want to know what sucks. I want to make it good for you. So, please take the time to check it out. prize.vet and uh and let me know what you think.

Troy: What a great host, huh?

PJ: Yeah. Thank you all.

— Thanks.